In my role as Petri’s Community Magnate, I will be interviewing a variety of IT-savvy technology folks. Some of these will be Petri contributors; some will be tech-company employees; some will be IT pros. We will be tackling various subject areas in the form of 30-minute audio interviews. I will be asking the questions, the bulk of which we’re hoping will come from you, our Petri.com community of readers.
Readers can submit questions via Twitter, Instagram, Facebook and/or LinkedIn using the #AskMJF hashtag. Once the interviews are completed, we will post the audio and associated transcript in the forums for readers to digest at their leisure. (By the way, did you know MJFChats are now available in podcast form? Go here for MJF Chat on Spotify; here for Apple Podcasts on iTunes; and here for Google Play.)
Our latest MJFChat is all about how and why Microsoft is backing open source. My special guest is Bryan Dam, a software engineer at Recast Software and a “Dam Good Admin.”
In this episode, Bryan and I chat a bit about Microsoft’s recently announced Windows 365/Cloud PC VDI service — specifically focusing on the management side of things. Bryan also answered a few listener/reader questions about how Microsoft Endpoint Manager (MEM) figures into this new offering.
If you know someone you’d like to see interviewed on the MJFChat show, including yourself, just Tweet to me or drop me a line. (Let me know why you think this person would be an awesome guest and what topics you’d like to see covered.) We’ll take things from there…
Mary Jo Foley:
Hi, you’re listening to Petri.com’s, MJF Chat Show. I am Mary Jo Foley, AKA your Petri.com community magnate. And I am here to interview tech industry experts about various topics that you, our readers and listeners want to know about. Today’s MJF Chat is going to be focused on Microsoft’s recently announced Windows 365 Cloud PC, and specifically about how IT Pros should be thinking about managing this new service. My special guest today is Bryan Dam, a config manager architect, and software engineer at Recast Software. He’s also a damn good admin, if he does say so himself. Welcome back to the MJF Chat, Bryan, and thank you so much for doing this today.
Bryan Dam:
Thanks for having me, you know, this is my second time on. The first time was on me, the second time that’s on you. That’s your fault.
Mary Jo Foley:
We got a complicated topic here today,
Bryan Dam:
Ah, yeah.
Mary Jo Foley:
But I think you’re ready.
Bryan Dam:
Oh, yeah.
Mary Jo Foley:
So Microsoft just came out a week ago with this thing called Windows 365 Cloud PC. We kind of knew a little about it. I was tracking it as codenamed Deschutes. But I’m curious about what you think of this. Like if you had to give somebody a really short elevator pitch and they said, what is Windows 365 Cloud PC? What would you say? And especially how is it different from Azure Virtual Desktop, which used to be Windows Virtual Desktop. That’s a malleable layer, but yeah.
Bryan Dam:
So the, the elevator pitch, the short version of it, I think is this, is that Windows 365, the elevator pitch for that is, do you just want to think about Cloud PCs as if they’re physical PCs, which is, or do you just not really want to care? Do you not want to have to know or care about whether it’s a physical or a Cloud PC? It’s just a PC, just like anything else. And you’re not worried about all the, how that sausage is made. If that’s the case, if that’s where you want to be, then I think Windows 365 is a compelling option. And that’s how it differentiates itself from Azure Virtual Desktop.
Mary Jo Foley:
Because you need to know a lot to run that, right?
Bryan Dam:
Right. I mean, it’s a continuum, right? So the longer answer there is, you know, if I think about, let’s think about the pandemic had happened 10, 15 years ago, like, what would an org do? Like, you know, we got 20,000 people. Most of them don’t have laptops. None of it can be in the office. And we don’t, you know, we can’t, you could theoretically ship the desktops to their home, but like, that’s not gonna work either. There’s reasons that’s not going to go well. So you’d be like, well, let’s spin up terminal services, you know? And then Microsoft will tell you, well you got to go talk to Citrix. Or I don’t know if VMWare was in that market at that time. But, you know, they basically tell you to go set up at Citrix farms so that your users can, whatever machine they have to go get it.
Bryan Dam:
Right. And I mean, what would it take to do that at scale, it’s going to take, you know, hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars worth of hardware you got to get in, you need all that infrastructure on prem. You need the people who know how to put that together. Right? You need somebody who can put together a petabyte storage array that works really well. And it’s backed up, right? There’s all this stuff you’d have to do. Right? And I used to work at an org that we had that team and that team’s not cheap. Right. I looked at my team and I was like, okay, this is a multimillion dollar per year team, just to have the people butts in the seats. Forget, you know, all the things those people want to go off and spend money to do. So like that would be the story.
Bryan Dam:
And then what sort of, in my mind, Azure Virtual Desktop is. Okay, well, let’s take that back. Right, instead of you don’t have to worry about the physical infrastructure, but you do have to know how to put the pieces together, right? Like you don’t need the storage guy, who’s doing crazy storage things. But you can pick from different storage options and there’s pros and cons there. And so when the pandemic did hit us a year ago, I can tell you, I know some really smart people, Donna Ryan, over at CDW, and some other consulting firms, like suddenly everything they were doing dropped, and all they were doing was Azure, Virtual Desktop. Right.
Mary Jo Foley:
Wow, yeah.
Bryan Dam:
Because people, good people were caught in that. Let’s say you had 20,000 people and you know, most of them didn’t have laptops. And you’re like, well, we want to go buy laptops. Too late, you couldn’t do it.
Mary Jo Foley:
Yep, I know you couldn’t find them.
Bryan Dam:
If you wanted to, you couldn’t. And so what you could do is just take a big pile of money and shove it over to Microsoft and say, we want to spin up Azure Virtual Desktop. But even that, like you needed expertise in Azure, Virtual Desktop, right? Like, okay, we need to know which storage options, again, you don’t need that person that you’re paying 150 to $200,000 to set up storage for you. But like, you need to know which one to pick and you need to know what the options are and right. There’s all these dials. They give you a bunch of dials and that’s great. Like, that’s not a bad thing. Like it’s good, but it takes a certain amount of expertise.
Mary Jo Foley:
It does, it does.
Bryan Dam:
Today with, you know, Windows 365, let’s say the pandemic were to not happen till now. I could, you know, you and me in a day could sit down and with a bit of PowerShell, we could probably spin up 10,000 machines.
Mary Jo Foley:
Wow, really? Okay.
Bryan Dam:
Yeah and we don’t care. We don’t care about the storage. We don’t care about, you know I mean maybe that’s a slight exaggeration, but as long as the pieces were in place, like some of the pieces, and I’m just saying, like, you had an Azure subscription. Like if you were completely 100% on-prem, yeah okay there’s some stuff. And you have to set up some things. And even that, I think that they’re hoping to lower the bar there. But like, if you were in Azure and you had some stuff, and you had, specifically, if you were hybrid Azure, AD joined, and I don’t want to go too deep down that, but we can talk about that a bit later. But like, if those, some of those place things were in place, which aren’t too crazy. Then yeah if you said, Hey, we just need to spin up 10,000 desktops. It’d be like, okay, let’s go do it. Right. And we don’t have to think about the storage. We don’t have to think about all these, you know, all these sorts of things, we just don’t have to necessarily think about.
Mary Jo Foley:
Yeah, true.. So, let me ask you this, because this is a good segue into this now. So Microsoft, when they’re pitching Windows 365, they say, you know what, one of the big advantages is it doesn’t require a big mindset or a skill set change for IT admins, because you can actually use the same tools that you already have to deploy and manage physical PCs, but you can now use them for Cloud PCs. Is that true? Or is that way over simplified and not really the case?
Bryan Dam:
It’s shades of both, I would say. It’s often Microsoft, you know, so when they say you can use the tools you already use and, and the asterisks there is, as long as it’s, you know, one of our tools. As long as it’s, you know, you can have any tool you want, as long as it’s Microsoft Endpoint Manager. And even then, we can parse that a little bit later, but like, when they’re really saying that, that’s sort of what they really mean. But it goes back to one thing that did come out. One thing I’ve heard them say again, and again, that’s what informed my elevator pitch a few minutes ago. Was like, they’re really going after this idea of what is the cloud version of a physical PC. Because when we talk about Azure Virtual Desktop, there’s all these little button and dials. There’s things you can do that are really specific to that, not the use case, but there’s a bunch of things you can do when you’re controlling the virtualization and how it works.
Bryan Dam:
And there’s all these kind of cool things you can do. Where this is like, no, no, no. It’s just, you know, it’s a persistent, virtual desktop, is the word. And what that means is like, it is one-to-one per user and we’re just spinning up an operating system in our virtualization environment. And we’re assigning it to this single user and that’s it. Like that user this is their thing. It’s just, so when they log in, that’s just like powering on a physical device. And so that really is like, they just kept saying that again and again, which is like we are going for you know, the analog of a physical device. And so the tools you would use to manage a physical device should for the most part apply to a Cloud PC.
Mary Jo Foley:
Okay, let me ask you about the Microsoft requirement there though, that you touched on. So you have to have Microsoft Endpoint Manager subscription to manage this, right? And you have to pay for that separately. It’s not part of what you get when you get Windows 365, right?
Bryan Dam:
So we should always preface any licensing discussion with nobody understands this.
Mary Jo Foley:
I know right.
Bryan Dam:
Including anyone you would talk to at Microsoft. But I will say they did give some clarity. And I think this is one case where it is actually, you know, it is comprehensive. You can actually comprehend this. Which is Windows 365, as I understand, is really an add on to Microsoft 365 or M365. So M365 subscription is a requirement before you can get Windows 365. And in the Microsoft, I have to keep parsing these in mind, right? The Microsoft 365 thing. There’s multiple levels in there, right? So there’s a business level. And so there’s some business level licenses in 365 that don’t include Microsoft Endpoint Manager, specifically what you would say into. They keep saying Microsoft Endpoint Manager, but it’s actually an umbrella for both what we would know as Configuration Manager or System Center Configuration Manager to most people, and then Intune. Right, so what they’re really talking about is Intune. So you get an Intune license when you get into, I think I want to say it’s Business Pro and then any of the E, so the E3, the E5. And then their education equivalents, which I think it’s what K, I think it’s K3 and K5, I’m not sure.
Mary Jo Foley:
I know there’s, A’s, there’s K’s, there’s F’s, it is a lot of things, yeah.
Bryan Dam:
Right. And so you need a Microsoft 365 subscription of some kind to have a Cloud PC. But there’s two, the key things to understand, and this is where it gets slightly complicated. So it’s actually two additions of the,
Mary Jo Foley:
Win365, yeah.
Bryan Dam:
Cloud PC, right? Yeah. I’m not even sure what to call it. Right? Like, is it cloud like yeah, there’s three.
Mary Jo Foley:
I kind of call it both at this point, because I’m like, well, it’s kind of both.
Bryan Dam:
Right. So, there’s two additions of that. And I would put in parenthesis, there’s the parenthesis small business version, and then there’s the enterprise version.
Mary Jo Foley:
Right. So those two, there’s Windows 365 Business, Windows 365 Enterprise. So, are the same set of tools for managing these going to be used for both of these SKUs or does one, like have Microsoft Endpoint Manager as the way you manage it? And the other one is like, Microsoft will manage it for you?
Bryan Dam:
You’re exactly half right. So, the enterprise version of Cloud PC requires that you have a subscription to Intune. So, any of the licenses we’ve talked about before, Business Pro, and E3, and E5, and other EDU equivalents, you have Intune. And so you have, or what they’re referring to as Microsoft Endpoint Manager. And so that means you have the portal to go into and you assign, right. You’re assigning those licenses to users. And if those users have those, then you can assign them a provisioning profile for a Cloud PC. So when I was talking a minute ago about how, Hey, in a few minutes, you and I can do great things, right? It’s like, well, we would set up this provisioning thing for this is the particular Cloud PC we want to use, right? We have some options in terms of GPUs, this is the thing we’re going to assign to this provisioning policy. And we just assign that to a group, right? We just assign that to a group of users, and then we just need to put users in there. And then on the enterprise side of things what’s going to happen is it’s going to provision those. And it’s gonna auto, that provisioning process will automatically enroll them into Intune, and once that’s,
Mary Jo Foley:
That’s on enterprise, but not business right?
Bryan Dam:
Right. Only on enterprise, it will automatically enroll in Intune. And then that’s it, right? Like at that point, it’s in Intune and it’s your machine. They’re not going to update it beyond that. And they’re not going to configure it beyond that. It is now your, right, just like a physical PC, it is yours to manage or not manage, as you see fit. They will not update it for you. They, aren’t going to configure it for you beyond that. They get you enrolled in Intune and you can take it from there. On the business side of things, right, so you don’t have a license for Intune. You can still provision, you can’t provision Enterprise Cloud PCs, but you’re going to provision Business Cloud PCs, and those are completely unmanaged.
Bryan Dam:
So, they’re literally just giving you an operating system. There’s I think, I believe they will auto configure the update mechanism, like you would normally do with group policy, but you don’t have group policy on this machine, at least not yet. Like they would configure it out of the box if you use their provided image, that they’re gonna have some frequency in which they update themselves, but it is up to the business to add in whatever management they want. So you can actually set up if youwanted, I’m told you could conceivably, if you were a very small business, you could spin it up a Business Cloud PC. And then you could like manually or automatically roll it into Intune if you wanted. Or some other third party product. Right? So if you had any of the other non-Microsoft sort of management tools out there, you could absolutely put that on a Business edition of a Cloud PC. The big caveat there is the max is 300.
Mary Jo Foley:
Right, 300 user maximum, right? Yeah.
Bryan Dam:
Right, right.
Mary Jo Foley:
Okay, so you’re touching on something I wanted to ask about, which is feature update. So, you know, Microsoft’s gonna move with Windows 11 and a one feature update a year, but with Windows 10, we’re still on two feature updates a year. If you’re running Windows 365 Cloud PC, what does it look like when a new feature update comes out? Like, is it just business as usual? You the admin are in charge of applying that to the PCs, whether they’re in the cloud or not in the cloud, or is it different with Windows 365?
Bryan Dam:
You nailed it. It’s no different, right?
Mary Jo Foley:
It’s no different? Wow, okay.
Bryan Dam:
Yeah. I know I was also slightly surprised by that myself. Especially, when I think of, cause I specifically asked about not just feature updates, but okay at some point people are going to do a migration to Windows 10 to Windows 11, right? And, you know, maybe they will surprise us at that point, but right now, nope. If you were to provision a Windows 10 PC for yourself or me, today, you know, there is no built-in mechanism to where someday you just log in and it’s Windows 11. So it’s going to be, you know, if it’s enterprise it’s going to be enrolled into Intune. And Intune has a bunch of features for rolling in a feature update. And so your users are going to have that same experience in their Cloud PCs, right?
Bryan Dam:
They’re going to get a notification that, Hey, you have Windows, you know, a feature update or Windows 11 is available. And if they click it and it’s going to have to install and reboot and all those things, right.
Mary Jo Foley:
Okay, cool.
Bryan Dam:
So I think it’s slightly a missed opportunity there. But again, this is one of the big differences between Azure Virtual Desktop and Windows 365. On Azure Virtual Desktop, you’d say, well we have this golden image and we lay everything on top of that. And so, you know, all we need to do is update this golden image. And then when somebody logs in, we’re laying all this stuff on top of it. You know, those are the kinds of things you can do in Azure Virtual Desktop. But again, that’s not what you do on a physical PC.
Mary Jo Foley:
That’s right.
Bryan Dam:
Right, so it’s like, it’s simple, it works like this. And so when you, and again, it goes to that whole philosophy of like, well, you’re not managing thinking, well, I need to manage the feature updates for Cloud PCs and I need to manage them for physical PCs. Nope. It’s just manage.
Mary Jo Foley:
Yeah, that’s good.
Bryan Dam:
Yeah. I mean, it’s a choice, right? Like
Mary Jo Foley:
It is. It’s a choice. That’s a good way to look at it.
Bryan Dam:
Right?
Mary Jo Foley:
If you want less things to do, then you pick one. And if you want to retain control as an admin, you would probably go with Win365, right?
Bryan Dam:
Yeah, again, it just hearkens back to that, I think earlier, it’s just kind of, what kind of business are you, right?
Mary Jo Foley:
Exactly.
Bryan Dam:
Cause one of the things, we haven’t talked about pricing yet. Again, there was no pricing announced, you know, one of the things I saw Microsoft talk about, which is one of the PMs kind of admitted. He’s like, well, you know, in terms of pricing, we don’t have pricing, but realistically speaking, if you were working in Azure Virtual Desktop and you tweaked all the dials, and if you stay on top of that, maybe you could eek out, you know, it a little bit cheaper. But it takes work, right? Like it takes work to do.
Mary Jo Foley:
Exactly, yeah.
Bryan Dam:
And so like when it comes to this specific persistent desktop scenario, you can do it in both. It’s just how you think about it and how, you know, what kind of organization are you? What are you bringing to the table will inform your decision of like left or right.
Mary Jo Foley:
Okay. Let’s do two reader/listener questions from Twitter. So Neil G asked us if we think Windows 365 Cloud PC will be suitable for small secure clients? He said things like a small law office, a small medical practice, or a business owner of a company with sub 100 people in it. Like, do you think it would make sense for that type of a company to go with Win365?
Bryan Dam:
In that scenario we’re primarily thinking the business edition. That’s where my mind goes. So this is where sometimes it’s funny because I think he specifically mentioned legal. So legal is one of those really interesting, I mean, we talk a lot about education being this interesting space, but like the legal thing is like a whole other ball game. It’s usually super small, right? Like he’s saying, it’s like law firms tend not to have tens of thousands of people. They don’t work at huge scales. But the people you do serve are really picky and and they get whatever they want. And so I have seen law firms, you know, with like double-digit people in the org and yet they’re setting up config manager and all that stuff, which is, you know, it’s a lot of work.
Bryan Dam:
It’s not a use case I would go to initially, but they’re doing it for that level of control. So all that to say, yeah, if you’re a small business and you’ve got small numbers of people I would absolutely trust that the data that’s in the Cloud PC stuff, that, that is as secure as anything. Right. I mean in terms of the cloud infrastructure and where that PC is. Now, there’s no, like out of the box, you get no management tool. Right. So there’s nothing that, you know, there’s nothing prevents somebody logging into a Cloud PC and then doing stupid things, right? Like you know, there’s no inherent antivirus protection on a Cloud PC. I mean, there’s built in Defender, but there’s no management tool for that built in to the business edition of this. Right. So it’s as secure as you want to make it on that side of things.
Mary Jo Foley:
Okay. Speaking of education, I thought it was interesting when Microsoft announced Cloud PC Win365, that they didn’t mention education as a customer base, right? I feel like it’s implied that they’re a customer base, but then they didn’t mention anything about like education SKU or education kinds of customers and the same thing for government users too. So I’m curious because I’m getting a lot of questions from people. Do you think Microsoft will offer Windows 365 for education and government? My guess is yes, but I don’t, I’m just kind of guessing on that.
Bryan Dam:
I mean, for government a hundred percent. Yeah. I mean, I saw in multiple places, people are like, you know, your typical government agency looks at everything that was talked about so far and be like, that’s cool I can’t wait to use it. You know, when you put it in a place that I’m contractually, or legally, or policy wise allowed to use it. And so yeah, the team has made it super clear on the government side of things. Yep, they understand. Right? Of course they understand, like this isn’t Microsoft’s first rodeo on Azure government stuff. Right. Like, so yeah they totally know that they’re going to have to go do that and they are committed to doing so. Like, so, I mean, when? No idea, right. None of us work there. So, I don’t know what engineering resources are committing to it and yada yada, but absolutely government a hundred percent, there’s going to be a government cloud version of this.
Bryan Dam:
I’m a little less certain on the education side of things. Now, maybe in terms of a SKU in pricing. Sure. I think that’s conceivable, but I think even within, I’ve talked to some education people about like, Hey, what are the use cases for this? Right. Like what would you use this for? And they’re like, oh, absolutely, yeah, I would totally use this. And part of what they’re excited about is a couple of things. One is just the actual hardware you’re giving. Right. A lot of them are, in EDU, you want to give them crappy hardware because you know, it’s going to get destroyed. Right. It’s just going to get absolutely wrecked.
Mary Jo Foley:
Right.
Bryan Dam:
And so what we want to do is have really cheap hardware we can give out, that’s almost disposable. And yet what we want to do is connect it to something that’s less disposable and more, you know, more manageable and more reliable.
Bryan Dam:
And so like that lines up, right. That totally lines up to use, to the education workspace. The other thing I heard them excited about is like, yeah, there’s times when, you know, especially when you get into high school, there might be some groups they’re in a design class where they’re doing you know CAD stuff, and we need to give them CAD, but not for four years. Like I need to give them CAD for like a semester. And that’s Windows Virtual Desktop, oh sorry Microsoft, oh Windows 365 is perfect for that because you’re like, you’re provisioning the user, right. Let’s say you were doing all years, all four years they have it, but oh, they’re in this class. Boom. We can literally just go push a few bits and suddenly now they have this awesome PC that can do amazing things and you’re going to pay a little bit extra for that. And then when they’re done, you’re like, oh, let me go take that back. And like the user is none the wiser, specifically on that use case, one of the forthcoming things they’re promising is a virtual desktop that has, sorry, a Cloud PC that includes a GPU. Right. So they don’t have that announced yet, but like, yeah, that’s a thing, they’re going to do it, to enable those kinds of use cases.
Mary Jo Foley:
That makes sense. Yep. Another question from Twitter Ashraf Kharrubi asked a very specific situation, but I think this is something people need to know. He said, I have a Microsoft 365 E5 account, and I was wondering about the timeline for not having to connect to an on-prem account in order to provision a Cloud PC. I saw a few people asking this, they had an AMA yesterday and a few people were asking about this. What’s the guidance there, anything?
Bryan Dam:
I will tell you that in that AMA, I think it’s almost a direct quote to say it’s an engineering priority. And some of the background there, which is for a while now, Microsoft has been saying which is hybrid Azure AD join is a bridge and it’s not a destination, which is different than when they talked about co-management. And it’s like, no, co-management can be a destination, not a bridge. And, you know, we’re not really telling everyone they have to move to Intune. And that’s all a separate topic. But they were very specific like, no, no, no, you can, you know, because you know, the early marketing stuff had an actual bridge, it was like, no, no, no, no, you can stay on that bridge. You can park on that bridge. But for a while now they’ve been saying, no, no, no, hybrid Azure AD joined is not a destination. It’s a bridge.
Bryan Dam:
You do it, so you can move from on-prem to cloud. And, you know, we don’t really want you to live in that space, ideally. And I’ve seen Microsoft people espouse that exact view. And so a lot of people were sort of like, so if you drank that Kool-Aid and you’re like, oh, great, okay, we’re going to spin up a new company, or we’re going to, you know, we’re going to try and move an existing org to what Microsoft in air quotes would say fully modern. You know, we’re gonna rip out local Active Directory and we’re going to go full Azure. And there’s just no on-prem stuff. Today, you can not use Windows 365 because there is this requirement for hybrid Azure AD join and it requires you to actually, so when you’re in that provisioning process, you need to be able to reach out to a on-prem domain controller. And why that is, I don’t fully understand. But that is actually going to be a blocker for people that, you know, toed that line. And we’re like, okay, fine, we’re going to rip all that stuff out. We’re going to be fully cloud and we have nothing on-prem. And then they’re like, except you can’t run a Cloud PC.
Mary Jo Foley:
Exactly. Which is kind of ironic, right? Given the name Cloud PC.
Bryan Dam:
Exactly. So, there were a lot of people, I know some of them were like, you know, Hey, we follow your advice. So there are some people that are, I can think, understandably angry that, okay, the first impression here is it’s not for you, which is just mind boggling. And so they have to, Microsoft has to know that and fix that.
Mary Jo Foley:
I’m sure they know.
Bryan Dam:
Right. Right, bloody quick.
Mary Jo Foley:
Okay, we’re almost out of time. So I just want as the last question to say, I know you looked at Microsoft’s AMA about Windows 365 Cloud PC yesterday. Was there anything I haven’t asked you about that jumped out at you that you think IT pros should know, or they should go check out in that AMA transcript?
Bryan Dam:
You did a really great job of covering a lot, the questions you had were really lined up very, very well. I don’t think there was anything I learned in that AMA that was super surprising. There was a lot of clarification. One of the big things I want to know is, was, yeah, I’m the software updates guy. Like, I don’t know why, I can’t even explain it to any rational human being, why I’m so interested in that particular topic. It makes no sense to anybody, but like, you know, like I was really looking for like, is there not this concept of there’s this base OS and you just keep it updated. Right. And the users never know, right? The users should never know that they’re using running the latest OS or whatever. And the answer is no. And it gets to there, it just, that AMA really helped clarify for me again, that elevator pitch that like the way that this team is looking at this solution is what’s the physical PC analog in the cloud? And the answer is it’s a Windows 365.
Mary Jo Foley:
Cool. That was the perfect wrap for this chat. Thank you so much for doing this today, Bryan. That was awesome.
Bryan Dam:
Oh, thanks for having me again.
Mary Jo Foley:
Great. And for everyone else, who’s listening right now or reading the transcript, I’ll be putting up information soon about who my next guest and what my next topic is going to be. And once you see that you can submit questions directly on Twitter, just like people did today for Bryan, but you’ve got to use the #MJFChat so we can find them and add them to our list. In the meantime, if you know of anyone else, or even yourself who might make a good guest for one of these chats, please do not hesitate to drop me a note. Thank you very much.