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  • VS or VMWare?

    Which one are you using for your production environment?

    Personally, I always found that VS is much easier to set up for my needs (mostly labs, tests, demos and so on). One of the most annoying aspects of VMWare for me is the complexity of their network setup and configuration. I'm sure I don't know as much as I should about VMWare, but it always seemed a bit too cmplex for my needs.

    Describe your own favorite, plus the pros and cons you're aware of.
    Cheers,

    Daniel Petri
    Microsoft Most Valuable Professional - Active Directory Directory Services
    MCSA/E, MCTS, MCITP, MCT

  • #2
    Re: VS or VMWare?

    As you know I am 100% VMware so expect the pro VMware speech from me

    For the competing virtualization products (MS Virtual Server vs. VMware GSX/VMware Server and MS Virtual Workstation vs VMware Workstation), I think it really boils down to personal preference. Where someone might say that the VMware products are difficult to use/configure, I don't see it. But that's because I've been using the products for a long time. Maybe VMware's products are difficult because of the robustness? More options? More complexity? Maybe MS is easier because of less options or robustness? I honestly don't know because I've only used MS virtualization for a total of 5 minutes and that was probably two years ago.

    I was born and raised on VMware so I know no other really. In my gut, I feel VMware is a better product simply because it has been around longer - about 4-5 years before MS took their shot at virtualization and let's be honest, MS's first attempt wasn't even their own product. They took over Connectix and rebranded what Connectix had already created. A tactic that sounds vaguely familiar......

    If you want to get into the enterprise level of virtualization products, MS has none. VMware ESX Server stands alone in this category.

    I don't give the MS virtualization products their fair shake, only because I don't feel like doing so. That is to say that MS's product, now completely overhauled and re-written from the ground up in comparison to their first Connectix product, is probably decent and gets the job done. But I'm very comfortable with VMware so there is no need for me to change. MS has come into the game late on virtualization so if they want my attention, my business, or my respect, they need to be doing it 200% better than VMware. So far I am not seeing that. So far all I see are copycat products with no competitive advantage over VMware other than price. And while we're on that subject, I view MS's low price points as a cheap attempt to steal VMware customers in the same fashion as did when they put the Netscape web browser out to pasture. For those who have migrated to MS simply for lower prices, I hope the MS product offers the same stability as the VMware products. Also, in what century does MS plan to offer and support an enterprise bare metal product that will run Novell and Linux operating systems? That'll be the day.

    Some day when I am bored and I'm done with all my certs and I have nothing better to do, I'll fire up MS virtualization and take it for a test drive.

    VCDX3 #34, VCDX4, VCDX5, VCAP4-DCA #14, VCAP4-DCD #35, VCAP5-DCD, VCPx4, vEXPERTx4, MCSEx3, MCSAx2, MCP, CCAx2, A+
    boche.net - VMware Virtualization Evangelist
    My advice has no warranties. Follow at your own risk.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: VS or VMWare?

      Originally posted by jasonboche
      Also, in what century does MS plan to offer and support an enterprise bare metal product that will run Novell and Linux operating systems? That'll be the day.
      Well, I would guess that would be faster than you expect :
      Linux Guest Support for Virtual Server 2005 R2
      Guy Teverovsky
      "Smith & Wesson - the original point and click interface"

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: VS or VMWare?

        Touche! Thank you for that information Guy.

        The additional OS support is making its appearance. I wonder if they will follow that up with a bare metal product to take the next step beyond the hosted product?
        VCDX3 #34, VCDX4, VCDX5, VCAP4-DCA #14, VCAP4-DCD #35, VCAP5-DCD, VCPx4, vEXPERTx4, MCSEx3, MCSAx2, MCP, CCAx2, A+
        boche.net - VMware Virtualization Evangelist
        My advice has no warranties. Follow at your own risk.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: VS or VMWare?

          I can only speculate, but let's consider what we already know:
          - VS (as far as I'm aware of) is planned to be integrated in the next server OS release (Longhorn)
          - One of the Longhorn editions is planned to be shipped without GUI (Server Core edition)

          As far as I know, currently Server Core edition is not planned to support VS, but it could be only a question of time till we see more and more server roles supported on the top of Core edition (SP1 ? SP2 ?)

          As to VS vs VMWare, at the middle-tier both of them have almost the same functionality and while I find VMWare Workstation more mature than VPC, the Server versions (VS/ESX), are a close match both from functionality and performance point of view.
          Enterprise level ? Well, MS is just not there yet...
          Guy Teverovsky
          "Smith & Wesson - the original point and click interface"

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: VS or VMWare?

            Do you all remember when Citrix had the code to nt4 and made winframe. It was such a success that Microsoft took the rights back, created terminal server, and integrated into the Windows OS. Citrix, in my opinion, seemed forced to come up with "add ons" for terminal server.

            What if Microsoft just included an advanced version of terminal server, that did everything vmware did, in the operating system? Where would vmware be? Making "add ons" for windows virtual server?

            Just my "what if's" for today....

            -David
            David Davis - Petri Forums Moderator & Video Training Author
            Train Signal - The Global Leader in IT Video Training
            TrainSignalTraining.com - Free IT Training Products
            Personal Websites: HappyRouter.com & VMwareVideos.com

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: VS or VMWare?

              Originally posted by daviddavis
              Do you all remember when Citrix had the code to nt4 and made winframe.
              This is neither here nor there but I think Citrix only had the code for NT 3.5x because the old Program Manager style 3.5x interface was as far as Winframe made it in I believe it was version 1.7. Then Microsoft Windows NT 4 Terminal Services Edition took over with the NT 4 interface.

              Originally posted by daviddavis
              It was such a success that Microsoft took the rights back, created terminal server, and integrated into the Windows OS. Citrix, in my opinion, seemed forced to come up with "add ons" for terminal server.
              Unfortunately for Citrix, it wasn't their base product to begin with. They built a successful product that had a dependancy on another vendor's operating system. They had to license it from Microsoft and Microsoft made the decision to take it back. Another classic case of Micrsoft doing the "Hey, look at what they are doing, let's use our huge bankroll to build on their achieved success and shut them out" though it's within their legal right to do so.

              Originally posted by daviddavis
              What if Microsoft just included an advanced version of terminal server, that did everything vmware did, in the operating system? Where would vmware be? Making "add ons" for windows virtual server?
              -David
              VMware writes software that is not completely dependent on Windows. VMware Workstation runs on Linux. VMware also has a bare metal product right now that has no competition from Microsoft. In that respect I think it's not a 1 to 1 comparison to Citirx. I wouldn't be surprised if future versions of ACE and VMware Player (VMware's free product) emerge for Linux platforms to break away from the Windows dependency. VMware has already responded in the price wars by lowering their prices to compete with the Microsoft products.

              As far as the future, who knows. Microsoft might have an ESX competitor product in a few years, but let us not assume VMware will rest on their laurels for 2 years and let Microsoft catch up. VMware will be making advancements in the the virtualization arena while MS continues to play catch up. Let us not also forget that VMware has financial backing and power from their parent company EMC who is a huge player in the storage arena. The future is all speculation and too volitale to place any bets at all, but it is fun to think "what if".
              Last edited by jasonboche; 2nd June 2006, 23:09.
              VCDX3 #34, VCDX4, VCDX5, VCAP4-DCA #14, VCAP4-DCD #35, VCAP5-DCD, VCPx4, vEXPERTx4, MCSEx3, MCSAx2, MCP, CCAx2, A+
              boche.net - VMware Virtualization Evangelist
              My advice has no warranties. Follow at your own risk.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: VS or VMWare?

                Hmmm... Look what I have just stumbled upon:
                http://www.microsoft.com/winme/0605/..._BillG_MBR.asx

                Fast forward to around 14:55 to see how MS virtualization products will look like when Longhorn comes out.
                Linux support, supports mixing 64 and 32 bit guests, mixing SMP and uniprocessor guests, you name it
                Guy Teverovsky
                "Smith & Wesson - the original point and click interface"

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: VS or VMWare?

                  Hi jason,

                  You made some great points on vmware vs virtual pc/server. I wonder why Microsoft didn't just buy vmware instead of letting EMC buy them.

                  If there is one thing I have learned about Microsoft, it is once they embrace something completely and work hard to create a good product, they usually succeed. For example, MS Sharepoint portal version 1 was a piece of junk. The current version and the new version coming out at the end of the year are great products. I think that, in the next few years, Microsoft's virtual products will take the same path- from junk (in the recent past) to average/okay now, to great products.

                  However, before I start to sound like I prefer VPC over vmware, you are right- vmware won't sit around either. They already have a headstart of 4+ years and have the absolute best product available.

                  All the best to you,
                  David
                  David Davis - Petri Forums Moderator & Video Training Author
                  Train Signal - The Global Leader in IT Video Training
                  TrainSignalTraining.com - Free IT Training Products
                  Personal Websites: HappyRouter.com & VMwareVideos.com

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: VS or VMWare?

                    Originally posted by guyt

                    As to VS vs VMWare, at the middle-tier both of them have almost the same functionality and while I find VMWare Workstation more mature than VPC, the Server versions (VS/ESX), are a close match both from functionality and performance point of view.
                    Enterprise level ? Well, MS is just not there yet...
                    VS and ESX are not close by any means. VS still relies on an underlying OS, while ESX is an OS. I have been a Microsoft support for years and now also a VMware supporter, but VS lacks the power that ESX offers, especially since ESX 3.0 came out.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: VS or VMWare?

                      Originally posted by waynegrow
                      VS and ESX are not close by any means. VS still relies on an underlying OS, while ESX is an OS. I have been a Microsoft support for years and now also a VMware supporter, but VS lacks the power that ESX offers, especially since ESX 3.0 came out.
                      Sorry, I ment GSX vs VS. ESX IS enterprise level, while MS still do not have a competing product for ESX.
                      Guy Teverovsky
                      "Smith & Wesson - the original point and click interface"

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: VS or VMWare?

                        I am currently using the VS and want to know if VS is better to manage than VMware. which product would be best for production and which would be best for teslab?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: VS or VMWare?

                          Originally posted by Kernel1970 View Post
                          I am currently using the VS and want to know if VS is better to manage than VMware. which product would be best for production and which would be best for teslab?
                          Better meaning what? Cheaper? Easier? More intuitive? Having the most features? Amount of infrastructure needed? Define.

                          Which VMware product are you contemplating for Production and/or test lab?
                          VMware Workstation?
                          VMware GSX (no longer available)?
                          VMware Server?
                          VMware Infrastructure 3 (ESX/VirtualCenter)?

                          How critical is your production environment and what is its growth rate? Tolerable downtime and scalability draws the boundaries between most of the products discussed above.

                          Jas
                          (currently at VMworld 2006)
                          VCDX3 #34, VCDX4, VCDX5, VCAP4-DCA #14, VCAP4-DCD #35, VCAP5-DCD, VCPx4, vEXPERTx4, MCSEx3, MCSAx2, MCP, CCAx2, A+
                          boche.net - VMware Virtualization Evangelist
                          My advice has no warranties. Follow at your own risk.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: VS or VMWare?

                            Damn Jason, you're alive? Don't do that again, we called the UN to get a rescue party...
                            Cheers,

                            Daniel Petri
                            Microsoft Most Valuable Professional - Active Directory Directory Services
                            MCSA/E, MCTS, MCITP, MCT

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