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  • Small Business 25 users : one hardware and Hyper-V

    Hello,

    I'm planning to deploy Hyper-V solutions for a small business :

    - maximum of 25 users
    - one physical server
    - easy backup solution

    Why only one physical server ? Because my customers don't want buy two and I think I can user a best physical server with best CarePack and backup solution for the price of two.


    First solution : typical business with Thin Client

    - Windows 2008 R2 entreprise
    - First VM running DC, storage, SQL Server
    - Second VM running Terminal Server and apps

    Second solution : typical business with a CRM for exemple

    - Windows 2008 R2 entreprise
    - First VM running DC, storage
    - Second VM running SQL Server + apps

    Third solution : typical business with need of exchange

    - Windows 2008 R2 STD
    - First VM running SBS 2008
    - Second VM running Terminal Server or second Premium SBS server


    For all of the solutions I plan to use this hardware : HP ML350 G6

    - One CPU (less than 15 users) or Two CPU (more than 15 users)
    - Two SAS disk RAID 1 for the host system
    - SAS RAID 5 - 4 disks : VM storage
    - 12 Go of RAM using dynamic memory
    - Externals hard drives for backup


    1 - Can you tell me if you think this solutions are right ? Have you got tips for me ?

    2- I plan to use Dataprotection Manager : with one hardware I have to deploy SQL express + DPM on the host server : is there a problem with this solution ?

    3- For small business Microsoft have a great package : System Center Essential 2010 plus (plus = DMP included) : is there any way to deploy SCE 2010 plus on the host system (AD is on the first VM) ?

    Hope this topic help Small Business specialists like me
    Last edited by Falconpage; 27th February 2011, 19:21.

  • #2
    Re: Small Business 25 users : one hardware and Hyper-V

    I'm going to assume you plan on doing it this way:

    Install Server 2008, Core, with HyperV Services
    Deploy a guest running Small Business Server 2008
    Deploy a second guest running Server 2008, to do whatever


    Here's where my concerns come in:
    HyperV doesn't do memory sharing and memory ballooning the way ESX does - namely, you cannot overcommit physical memory.
    SBS by itself won't really run nicely with less than 8GB. So there's your first 8GB gone.

    Secondly, once you go to the 2CPU, you have a concept called NUMA nodes, where the physical memory has to be shared across both CPUs, so that's only 6GB of RAM per physical CPU. So now your SBS server is trying to access RAM across both CPUs, creating locks on the secondary cpu, affecting the second guest.



    Virtualisation can DEFINITELY be a solution to an issue. But it doesn't seem like you're using it to resolve a problem. You're talking about 25 users, maximum.
    You don't need virtualisation at this level, unless you need hardware redundancy and things like that.

    all of this, of course, is just my opinion.

    I also have concerns about the decision to just have a single RAID5 array as datastorage for VMs. Chances are, they are going to page a little bit, which will increase disk IO, potentially hammering your disk subsystem.
    Please do show your appreciation to those who assist you by leaving Rep Point https://www.petri.com/forums/core/im.../icon_beer.gif

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    • #3
      Re: Small Business 25 users : one hardware and Hyper-V

      First, thanks for your answer.

      Here's where my concerns come in:
      HyperV doesn't do memory sharing and memory ballooning the way ESX does - namely, you cannot overcommit physical memory.
      SBS by itself won't really run nicely with less than 8GB. So there's your first 8GB gone.
      Hyper-V SP1 (2008R2 SP1) does sharing memory, you are right SBS need memory. Memory isn't a very big problem. Prices are low.

      Secondly, once you go to the 2CPU, you have a concept called NUMA nodes, where the physical memory has to be shared across both CPUs, so that's only 6GB of RAM per physical CPU. So now your SBS server is trying to access RAM across both CPUs, creating locks on the secondary cpu, affecting the second guest.
      Thanks for this note.


      Virtualisation can DEFINITELY be a solution to an issue. But it doesn't seem like you're using it to resolve a problem. You're talking about 25 users, maximum.
      You don't need virtualisation at this level, unless you need hardware redundancy and things like that.
      I'm not sure understanding well : To have SBS2008 + terminal server I have to had two physical server or ... one with Hyper-V.
      For 25 users I prefer one physical hardware : performances are great, don't waste physicals ressources.

      all of this, of course, is just my opinion.

      I also have concerns about the decision to just have a single RAID5 array as datastorage for VMs. Chances are, they are going to page a little bit, which will increase disk IO, potentially hammering your disk subsystem.
      You are right I think too RAID5 array is limited. I'll going to use 2 + 2x3 disks (System RAID1 + 1 RAID VM1 + 1 RAID VM2).
      For budget needs I can use this : System RAID1, RAID1 VM1, RAID1 VM2

      Can you tell me how to size storage for multiple VM ?

      Thanks again.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Small Business 25 users : one hardware and Hyper-V

        To tell you the truth, I really don't like this solution. And it doesn't matter what virtualization solution are you using... Putting all the eggs in the same basket just doesn't sounds right. Money should be spent wisely and saved where it makes sense...
        Now, to my concerns:
        1) a virtualized DC will rise problems with the start-up of the physical host. It has no DC to authorize against... Usually, the second DC in the AD is OKed for virtualization.
        2) I have no idea what storage controller you have in that server. The G6 comes with SmartArray P410, but does it has cache memory on it? Does it contain the BBWC kit? This kit will change the issue of intensive I/O you will have to expect (as tehcamel said). BTW, I don't think splitting 4 RAID5 disks into 2xRAID1 is a better solution, and I am not sure it can be made. I don't remember how many logical arrays can be defined on a P410 controller. Two for sure, but the third? I really don't think so...
        3) the same with the CPU: what do you have? A Dual-Core? A Quad-Core? Six-Core? And why do you think one CPU is enough for 15 users? 15 users of what? In AD? In Terminal Server? You have there some pretty heavy VMs, what are you going to do? One core for each VM?
        4) With so many virtual servers, I am afraid you will, at some time, discover that the two network ports the server has by default will be not enough. Are you planning to add another network card? I think it will be something worth thinking of.

        My two cents, anyway.

        Sorin Solomon


        In order to succeed, your desire for success should be greater than your fear of failure.
        -

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        • #5
          Re: Small Business 25 users : one hardware and Hyper-V

          I went with a similar solution that is in testing right now and will be deployed March 11. Budget was a concern. I went with a Dell PowerEdge T410, 6-core Xenon, 24GB RAM and 4 x 300GB SAS RAID-5.

          My host is Server 2008 R2 running Hyper-V role. It is a member of WORKGROUP. I have SBS 2008 R2 installed as a VM. I have alocated 16GB of RAM. The VHD is not dynamic, instead I have it a fixed size of 600GB. The second VM is Server 2008 R2 running terminal services and is a member of he SBS 2008 domain.

          I am using Backup Exec 2010 with the Hyper-V and Exchange Remote Agent license.
          Network Engineers do IT under the desk

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Small Business 25 users : one hardware and Hyper-V

            1) a virtualized DC will rise problems with the start-up of the physical host. It has no DC to authorize against... Usually, the second DC in the AD is OKed for virtualization.
            In my case physical host is a workgroup member.

            2) I have no idea what storage controller you have in that server. The G6 comes with SmartArray P410, but does it has cache memory on it? Does it contain the BBWC kit? This kit will change the issue of intensive I/O you will have to expect (as tehcamel said). BTW, I don't think splitting 4 RAID5 disks into 2xRAID1 is a better solution, and I am not sure it can be made. I don't remember how many logical arrays can be defined on a P410 controller. Two for sure, but the third? I really don't think so...
            You are right : I have to use two array : one for the host and the other one to the VMs.
            Yes, I plane to use a 1 Go secure option cache.

            3) the same with the CPU: what do you have? A Dual-Core? A Quad-Core? Six-Core? And why do you think one CPU is enough for 15 users? 15 users of what? In AD? In Terminal Server? You have there some pretty heavy VMs, what are you going to do? One core for each VM?
            Again your are right : no project without see the customers use and needs.
            If I use virtualisation I'll use a better hardware : here an HP DL385 12 cores with 16 Go memory is at street price of 2600 euros.
            With disks, warranty nextday and extra power supply we have a very good hardware.
            I'm sure for 10 users an SBS2008 + TSE in a Hyper-V one physical server will have the best power / price.


            4) With so many virtual servers, I am afraid you will, at some time, discover that the two network ports the server has by default will be not enough. Are you planning to add another network card? I think it will be something worth thinking of.
            I'll have one network for one Vm : prices are low for additional Ethernet card.


            Thanks for your answer, I'm sure that Virtualization do not answer every need but can help small business have good services at the best price.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Small Business 25 users : one hardware and Hyper-V

              Originally posted by RobW View Post
              I went with a similar solution that is in testing right now and will be deployed March 11. Budget was a concern. I went with a Dell PowerEdge T410, 6-core Xenon, 24GB RAM and 4 x 300GB SAS RAID-5.

              My host is Server 2008 R2 running Hyper-V role. It is a member of WORKGROUP. I have SBS 2008 R2 installed as a VM. I have alocated 16GB of RAM. The VHD is not dynamic, instead I have it a fixed size of 600GB. The second VM is Server 2008 R2 running terminal services and is a member of he SBS 2008 domain.

              I am using Backup Exec 2010 with the Hyper-V and Exchange Remote Agent license.
              How many users for this projetc ?

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Small Business 25 users : one hardware and Hyper-V

                There are about 20 local users and 10 TS users.
                Network Engineers do IT under the desk

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