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Licensing with User CALs for 2003 ..confused!

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  • Licensing with User CALs for 2003 ..confused!

    Hi,

    Just when I thought that I had managed to understand the concepts of licensing with User and Device CALs, I had a friend tell me that I was wrong.

    This is what I thought was the way:

    I thought that regardless of how many servers were on the domain, and that if I had e.g 200 users in Active Directory, yet only ever 100 at one time, that I would only need 100 user CALs for the domain.

    So I was thinking it all came down to the amount of concurrent user connections.

    From technet I got this:

    "The number of Windows CALs required equals the number of users or devices accessing the server software."

    The key word there is "accessing"! Now to me that would mean concurrent, but am I wrong? I'm hoping not. Thanks.

  • #2
    Re: Licensing with User CALs for 2003 ..confused!

    I'll borrow a colleague of mine's sticky note concept to explain CALs:

    User CALS; every user CAL is a bag of meat. Attach a yellow sticky note to it, and, once it AUTHENTICATES, it has used that CAL. Only when that bag of meat, leaves the company, dies, or goes elsewhere does it return the stick note. ie you get your CAL back. The only concurrency here is the bag of meat can be authenticated on (a) desktop(s), laptop(s) and mobile/smartphone(s).
    Device CAL; a machine which AUTHENTICATES. Put a sticky note on the machine, (That's your CAL) and it only returns when the machine no longer functions, is removed from authenticating etc. Useful where you have people working in shifts like a call centre, etc. Each computer gets a device CAL no matter how many people use it. Beware though, some complex printers, etc need device CALS if they AUTHENTICATE to send alerts to the network.

    HTH
    TIA

    Steven Teiger [SBS-MVP(2003-2009)]
    http://www.wintra.co.il/
    sigpic
    Iím honoured to have been selected for the SMB 150 list for 2013. This is the third time in succession (no logo available for 2011) that I have been honoured with this award.

    We donít stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing.

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    • #3
      Re: Licensing with User CALs for 2003 ..confused!

      didn't really understand the meat one.

      are you saying that I need a CAL for every user that I create in AD? Even if I create 100 test accounts, does that mean I would need 100 more user CALs?

      If so, that would mean the moment an employee leaves the company, you should rather delete the account instead of disable??

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Licensing with User CALs for 2003 ..confused!

        Don't think of the meat (User), think about the yellow sticky note (CAL). Read it again very carefully and even make a drawing of it.

        I understand what you are getting at. Had a network with 4,000 users and they had 800 Exchange CALs as they figured not everyone would be accessing their mail at once. The problem is that when 800 user are accessing their mail and user 801 tries to connect, they get knocked back. The same will happen with your setup. If you have 100 CALs and all 100 are being used, when user 101 logons on........well they won't be able to.
        1 1 was a racehorse.
        2 2 was 1 2.
        1 1 1 1 race 1 day,
        2 2 1 1 2

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        • #5
          Re: Licensing with User CALs for 2003 ..confused!

          I must say that um , a bag of meat is a , um, a unique analogy. ROTFLMAO
          But anyway I will attempt to explain. (and not confuse)

          A cal is license to authenticate. MS gives you two methods to do so. A user or a computer.

          If you go the user route; then one user per CAL can authenticate from unlimited computers (or devices)

          If you go the computer route then you can authenticate unlimited users from one computer per CAL.

          Keep in mind , assuming option B, every computer that you log in from will also count against your CAL (home, office, PDA, internet cafe. ETC...)

          Most companies will choose Option A, as more users now work remotely.

          Also, a disabled user cannot authenticate, so there is no need to delete them, you can if you like.

          Biggles is referring to the Licensing service that attempts to control the above however concurrency is not used in determining your CAL count. The key here is who/what could authenticate at any time.
          "...if I turn out to be particularly clear, you've probably misunderstood what I've saidĒ - Alan Greenspan

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          • #6
            Re: Licensing with User CALs for 2003 ..confused!

            confusing confusing......

            i have read about user cals and device cals.

            my query is just as i made out, and i hope i'm clear.

            where user CALs are used, is it concurrent connections or not???

            example: i have 200 Users in my Active Directory........whereas I rarely have over 80-90 concurrent connections...............therefore, would i be safe in buying 100 user CALs??

            thanks guys..

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            • #7
              Re: Licensing with User CALs for 2003 ..confused!

              If you go all user, then you will need 200 CAL's, However you can mix and match per user and per device, if the other 110 will always log on from the same machine, thats one CAL (but they come in packs of five)

              In any case I will quote from one of Harry Brelsford's books "....You can never use the word "concurrent" in the context of server 2003 licensing...........and I've since removed the word "concurrent" from my vocabulary" [end quote]

              Sorry I did not address you original question earlier, but i believe now i did. You are wrong your friend is right.
              Last edited by Lior_S; 13th July 2007, 04:23. Reason: added info
              "...if I turn out to be particularly clear, you've probably misunderstood what I've saidĒ - Alan Greenspan

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              • #8
                Re: Licensing with User CALs for 2003 ..confused!

                ok thanks...our AD has about 200 users, although probably about 50 of them are past employees (now disabled),..............i guess I better start deleting them!

                Thanks...more money for M$.

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                • #9
                  Re: Licensing with User CALs for 2003 ..confused!

                  Originally posted by dublin_101 View Post
                  50 of them are past employees (now disabled),..............i guess I better start deleting them!
                  not sure how you came to that conclusion, but as stated previously, disabled accounts do not count against your CAL's.
                  "...if I turn out to be particularly clear, you've probably misunderstood what I've saidĒ - Alan Greenspan

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                  • #10
                    Re: Licensing with User CALs for 2003 ..confused!

                    Every "bag of meat" (person) that authenticates needs a CAL. This has nothing to do with how many people are in your AD, disabled or not. Just make sure that every person that authenticates to your server(s) has a USER CAL.
                    TIA

                    Steven Teiger [SBS-MVP(2003-2009)]
                    http://www.wintra.co.il/
                    sigpic
                    Iím honoured to have been selected for the SMB 150 list for 2013. This is the third time in succession (no logo available for 2011) that I have been honoured with this award.

                    We donít stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Licensing with User CALs for 2003 ..confused!

                      well if that means that every person that authenticates needs a CAL, then that is starting to sound like "CONCURRENT".....

                      because once a person logs off for the day is his/her CAL released? or is it a system where the licensing manager holds the CAL for a person for so many days/months after last authentication - and then releases.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Licensing with User CALs for 2003 ..confused!

                        No - it's not concurrent. Just because a user logs off, doesn't release the CAL - if he/she has to use it again tomorrow. Only if he/she leaves the firm and wont log in again, does the CAL get released.
                        TIA

                        Steven Teiger [SBS-MVP(2003-2009)]
                        http://www.wintra.co.il/
                        sigpic
                        Iím honoured to have been selected for the SMB 150 list for 2013. This is the third time in succession (no logo available for 2011) that I have been honoured with this award.

                        We donít stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Licensing with User CALs for 2003 ..confused!

                          Originally posted by teiger View Post
                          Only if he/she leaves the firm and wont log in again, does the CAL get released.
                          and how does the licensing manager know that he/she has left the company? is that where you actually have to go into the console and release the cal from the user?? thanks.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Licensing with User CALs for 2003 ..confused!

                            Originally posted by dublin_101 View Post
                            and how does the licensing manager know that he/she has left the company? is that where you actually have to go into the console and release the cal from the user?? thanks.
                            Essentially, yes.

                            This is (yet another) reason why licensing is often disabled and worked on an "honour" system, where you can (if asked) point to the physical licenses and the number of real employees and show they match.
                            Tom Jones
                            MCT, MCSE (2000:Security & 2003), MCSA:Security & Messaging, MCDBA, MCDST, MCITP(EA, EMA, SA, EDA, ES, CS), MCTS, MCP, Sec+
                            PhD, MSc, FIAP, MIITT
                            IT Trainer / Consultant
                            Ossian Ltd
                            Scotland

                            ** Remember to give credit where credit is due and leave reputation points where appropriate **

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                            • #15
                              Re: Licensing with User CALs for 2003 ..confused!

                              Originally posted by dublin_101 View Post
                              and how does the licensing manager know that he/she has left the company? is that where you actually have to go into the console and release the cal from the user?? thanks.
                              Sorry, but this is starting to get rediculous. You seem to have "target fixation" on the word concurrency and need to throw the term away. If you are still having problems understanding CALs and how they work then I suggest you contact Microsoft and ask them. The wrote/designed/created them so they if anyone will be able to fully explain them to you. Failing that, maybe you should revert to 1 User = 1 CAL.
                              1 1 was a racehorse.
                              2 2 was 1 2.
                              1 1 1 1 race 1 day,
                              2 2 1 1 2

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