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SBS: explain something to a non SBS genius...(philosophy of windows?)

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  • SBS: explain something to a non SBS genius...(philosophy of windows?)



    I'm not bashing or trolling in this post, I really want to understand how "MS Pros" on here live with and defend this product...

    Ran Windows Server 2000 for 5 years and 2003 R2 for another 5 years. This time around an install of SBS2008 seemed like the right choice for our small business.

    Default install out of the box setup using exchange and other then adding another Server 2003 R2 install for a redundant DNS/AD I've done NOTHING but run this SBS box as a standard setup. No additional software running on it other then AVG Business Edition.

    Rant now worthy of useful comments...

    Every week it's "something" with this box. I fix all the concerns posting as Event ID and a week late more show...none stop issues with reporting servers not working, WSUS concerns, tonight terminals servers shutting off, all the little programs that show me the state of the domain on antivirus, updates, not reporting well.

    Is this stuff so complicated and bogged down by 10 updates night that even a default install cannot survive w/o constant "tinkering"?

    Is this stuff designed to keep MS MVP employee by constantly needing attention and "consulting"?

    I'm not a windows genius but I have been keeping NT sever, 2000 server, 2003 sever running for my business for 15 years...so I know my way around a box or two...and it just amazed me how a product designed for "small business" needs so much attention, doesn't do half the things it should seamlessly do, blah, blah, rant, rant...ok so you get it.

    Tell me what I am missing in the philosophy of Windows management? Is this constant attention acceptable to you guys? Do you not have these concerns?

    I'm really fed up with this install and am not wishing I could regress to a far less functional solution, can the exchange server (although it's go great features).

    ggggurrrr!

  • #2
    Re: SBS: explain something to a non SBS genius...(philosophy of windows?)

    when you change things and manage the server - do you manage it as an SBS server, using the sbs wizards and tools, or do you try and manage it as a normal server ?
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    • #3
      Re: SBS: explain something to a non SBS genius...(philosophy of windows?)

      First of all - have you tried running a Standard Win2008 Srv (64-bit) - NOT R2 - with AD/DNS, WSUS and TS on it?
      On the other hand, SBS 2003 in its day was a really sweet spot in terms of functionality and price.
      Why these questions? - well I say that SBS 2008 is on the Vista code base as opposed to the newly announced SBS2011 which is Win7/R2 code base. There have been improvements!
      Last edited by teiger; 18th November 2010, 12:04. Reason: typo
      TIA

      Steven Teiger [SBS-MVP(2003-2009)]
      http://www.wintra.co.il/
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      Iím honoured to have been selected for the SMB 150 list for 2013. This is the third time in succession (no logo available for 2011) that I have been honoured with this award.

      We donít stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing.

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      • #4
        Re: SBS: explain something to a non SBS genius...(philosophy of windows?)

        Have to at least partially agree - SBS2008 is nowhere near as good as SBS2003 was, especially the Premium Edition which was great from a security point of view as well.

        Tehcamel makes a very valid point though, I'm not an SBS guru by any means but it is ESSENTIAL that you manage SBS using it's wizards and not as you would a normal Windows server. Better techs than me have catastrophically broken SBS in this way, and I've had a few disasters myself. Even changing the IP address of a NIC must be done through a wizard, for example.
        BSc, MCSA: Server 2008, MCSE, MCSA: Messaging, MCTS
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        • #5
          Re: SBS: explain something to a non SBS genius...(philosophy of windows?)

          Thanks for good comments guys.

          I only manage with wizards, I know better then to go outside the mental box that microsoft created with this tool. I wanted something simple that could do the job for our 40 client pcs and get me exchange back in the facility after ripping exchange out a few years ago, I now regret that...

          I didn't want to go with a standard 2008 server as I didn't want to pay separate for exchange and the costs plus have to be an exchange setup expert.

          I had no idea this was on Vista code and most likely would have run...knowing that. I assumed it was a precursor to Win7....but that is obviously not true once I saw it in action.

          I run a business and happen to know quite a bit about IT having to being the cutting edge of technology for our company and to keep costs low. The few times I had consultants in here I gave them to much money and didn't get much value in return (many moons ago) so I decided to figure out this stuff on my own...investing an insane amount of time. No I'm not an expert, yes I do things wrong...and that is why I selected SBS after some recommendations from high tech MS MVP type of friends (who incidentally are not around to answer questions!) I'm just so disappointed in this product and how much attention needs...

          OK my daily email reports are not working now, let me go figure out what that concern could be! Oh look my SQL usage that I set to 1gb last night is now up to 2gb...fun....

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          • #6
            Re: SBS: explain something to a non SBS genius...(philosophy of windows?)

            Not wanting to drive you away from this wonderful site, but this one, that you pay to be a member of, may be worth a look. http://www.smallbizserver.net/Home.aspx Here you can get specific help to your problem with the appropriate plan.

            Steven is in a much better position to comment on Mariette's site than I am since he IS and SBS Guru and Community Member.
            1 1 was a racehorse.
            2 2 was 1 2.
            1 1 1 1 race 1 day,
            2 2 1 1 2

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            • #7
              Re: SBS: explain something to a non SBS genius...(philosophy of windows?)

              Thanks for the input and suggestion.

              A great guru would be wonderful to had but I guess my rant is I cannot believe I need a guru for something that should just "run" out of the box far better.

              I liken this to buying a new GM car and needing a tune up every month...and I'm the guy who has to do it because I cannot afford a consultant whom I shouldn't need in the first place!

              Again, I'm sure some will think I am to blame and maybe I am...and thus I was soliciting my concerns to see if others feel the way I do. It's not MS bashing because Server 2003 was an amazing product as is Windows 7.

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              • #8
                Re: SBS: explain something to a non SBS genius...(philosophy of windows?)

                like someone posted earlier - show me ANY other windows server - be it windows 2003 or 2008, that runs ALL of the following, on one server

                server, file/print, update services, dhcp, dns, active directory, Exchange 2007, SQL Server, Sharepoint



                and that's before people start fking with it and configuring it outside of the wizards (the "universal" people, not you specifically)
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                • #9
                  Re: SBS: explain something to a non SBS genius...(philosophy of windows?)

                  Great point...and I agree completely. But on the other hand I don't think things marketed and sold to me should have so many issues. If this was a chevy I'd be trying to involve a lemon law!

                  I have to admit I removed sharepoint...simply because it was not being used and was giving huge amount of errors from something I never even config'd! So I guess I did lie that my setup is not standard...but if anything I was making my life easier by removing the bloat.

                  But also...my other server in the past did run all these same items (minus sharepoint) and we even had exchange at one point...and the servers were less troublesome. I just liked the idea of all the wizards, reports and interfaces to manage things...and half of them don't work, report errors or don't' survive updates.

                  OK, now my VNC connection doesn't work and the service won't restart...got to run!

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                  • #10
                    Re: SBS: explain something to a non SBS genius...(philosophy of windows?)

                    What training did you do before installing SBS 2008?
                    Did you do a couple of dry runs beforehand or just install it live first time out of the box?
                    While SBS is designed to be easier for the small business market, it does have to be installed and configured correctly. Even with wizards this can be a daunting task hence the link I provided above and the previous MVP recognition of our own SBS Guru, Teiger.

                    I have done the Train Signal SBS 2008 Lab and 3 installs so far and I still haven't gotten it perfect and I have setup, configured and maintained 1,000 user Domains with a plethera of hardware platforms and software that shouldn't work on them.

                    Maybe I am just an SBS dummy.
                    1 1 was a racehorse.
                    2 2 was 1 2.
                    1 1 1 1 race 1 day,
                    2 2 1 1 2

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                    • #11
                      Re: SBS: explain something to a non SBS genius...(philosophy of windows?)

                      No official training but almost a years worth of research and working with a friend who is my MS MVP when I step in big poo.

                      I am lucky enough to run a business with lots of down time in the summer (small ski resort). So once we closed in March I spent 4 months installing, reinstalling, reinstalling, reinstalling...learning the wizards, getting up to speed on the newer version of exchange. I honestly probably reinstalled it 8 times before going live...so I have it perfect and could get it installed on my Dell 2850 in very short order.

                      But no...not any official training. And I was expecting people on this post to point out that only a Microsoft Certified person should be installing this stuff. But to be honest after reinstalling this 7-8 times it was a no brainer...and everything seemed easy to do. Nothing tossed me a curve nor did I think I was in over my head (but isn't that how it always is before you drown!).

                      My concerns have come after the install and live for almost 3 months with 40+ client PCs on the system and hoping to open for the ski season in 2-3 weeks. Maintaining and managing after an easy install is where my concerns are.

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                      • #12
                        Re: SBS: explain something to a non SBS genius...(philosophy of windows?)

                        Originally posted by carboncow View Post
                        But no...not any official training. And I was expecting people on this post to point out that only a Microsoft Certified person should be installing this stuff.
                        Did you honestly, really expect that mate? If so, why? Cause I don't think any of the serious members here would ever suggest things like that - I might have some letters after my name - but I've never thought it necessarily makes me better than others - i know people with over 15 years experience, and not a single letter, and they kick my ass 18 ways from sunday.

                        To go off topic a bit, I'll admit I do get narky with people, but I'd like to think I haven't been particularly narky with you - if I have, please point it out.
                        There's a reason I don't get narky with you - it's because you come across as a peer.
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                        • #13
                          Re: SBS: explain something to a non SBS genius...(philosophy of windows?)

                          Originally posted by tehcamel View Post
                          like someone posted earlier - show me ANY other windows server - be it windows 2003 or 2008, that runs ALL of the following, on one server

                          server, file/print, update services, dhcp, dns, active directory, Exchange 2007, SQL Server, Sharepoint



                          and that's before people start fking with it and configuring it outside of the wizards (the "universal" people, not you specifically)
                          and I'm going to add on this we don't even use it as a file/printer server too! So basically if you remove Sharepoint/File/print you have every other Exchange server ever made...we also don't use SQL Server other then that which the onboard MS wants to use for it's functionality...and consumes HUGE amounts of memory if you don't control it.

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                          • #14
                            Re: SBS: explain something to a non SBS genius...(philosophy of windows?)

                            Originally posted by tehcamel View Post
                            Did you honestly, really expect that mate? If so, why? Cause I don't think any of the serious members here would ever suggest things like that - I might have some letters after my name - but I've never thought it necessarily makes me better than others - i know people with over 15 years experience, and not a single letter, and they kick my ass 18 ways from sunday.

                            To go off topic a bit, I'll admit I do get narky with people, but I'd like to think I haven't been particularly narky with you - if I have, please point it out.
                            There's a reason I don't get narky with you - it's because you come across as a peer.
                            Camel,

                            No I think I have been treated well on this board and that is why I come back here...and I do recall you have been fair too, but my memory may be short! I can think of two other MS SBS boards I frequent and don't like the vibe there so I prefer to come here...plus I simply get better replies here right or wrong. I hate when I post something on a BB that has to be common and either I get no answer or someone telling me that it's been covered before and I should learn how to use google.

                            My hobbies include Automotive, IT, Boating and drinking and with the exceptions of the last one I do a lot of research online and have been known to only go where the experts go...it's always amazing to me when I'm knee deep in poo people can point out that I should have found a "professional"...and I've got that on more then one occasion when trying to get into MS products!

                            I was just expecting everyone to interpret my frustration and a desire to talk through this product as just a rant to hate on MS or state that it's not going well for me...because I didn't do my homework.

                            SBS seemed like the right choice and I actually thought it would be to easy or dumbed down for needs...only find it's challenging me even more then expected. Since I needed to wipe my domain clean an start over I decided to update across the board. I actually wish I just would have reloaded Server 2003 R2 and pushed the life cycle to the bitter end!

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                            • #15
                              Re: SBS: explain something to a non SBS genius...(philosophy of windows?)

                              I don't pay much attention to certs. I have them because I work for a support company, and the more I have the more can be charged for my services and the more credibility we have.

                              I know a few guys at my old job who have achieved MCSA in a month. I wouldn't have let them install a printer.

                              Back to SBS though, I think SBS 2008 suffers from the current Microsoft/industry curse of assuming that they know better than end users how they want to use the software. SBS 2003 didn't automatically enable components without someone running a wizard to configure them IIRC, whereas 2008 has sharepoint etc on by default.
                              BSc, MCSA: Server 2008, MCSE, MCSA: Messaging, MCTS
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                              Cruachan's Blog

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