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  • New domain - 2003 or 2008?

    Hi,

    I have been asked to provide a solution for a small office (ten users on-site, 4 off-site) who are currently sharing documents in a workgroup and popping email.
    All the machines are running XP Pro and Office 03, so I have suggested the following and would like some advice if possible.

    2003 SBS Premium edition
    Dual Core Intel Xeon E3113, 3.0GHz, 6MB Cache, 1333MHz FSB
    4GB (2 x 2GB dual ranked)
    4 SATA Hot Swop - RAID 5 250GB (partition to OS, Data and Exchange?)
    2 nic's not teamed but enabled for remote access with ISA running behind a SOHO router (initially)
    Exchange with OWA using 3rd party SSL.
    RD1000 with Symantec Backup Exec 12d - Small Business Server Suite

    1) I have read that the back-up utility built in to SBS 2003 Premium will back up everything (including Exchange) and also OK for a DR situation - 2008 is not. What media will 2003 SBS built in utility work with?
    An internal RD1000 and Symantec adds another £400 when bought with the server, although I am looking for a complete back-up and DR resolution.

    2) 2008 is cheaper, (when ordering with server) although there is no premium edition listed. I understand I have priced for an older operating system, but unsure that 2008 can be used in dual nic environment, and considering we have only budgeted for a SOHO router, we need ISA.

    3) Not being sure of the enhancements with 2008 over 2003 (when used with XP and Office 03) - has the "no longer supported date" been announced yet?

    4) I see Gareth Howells advice of purchasing the OS seperately as the configuration won't be ideal (disk partioning perhaps?). I will contact Dell, but has anyone asked them not to install the OS? Other than that, it would be a few hours extra work to re-install.

    5) Any advice for AV for SBS with Exchange?

    Thanks for looking!

    Simon
    Last edited by simonsays; 3rd April 2009, 10:54.

  • #2
    Re: New domain - 2003 or 2008?

    Simon

    IMnotsoHO, 2008 would be preferable over 2003, for much the same reasons that you wouldn't sell a client a desktop with Windows 2000 Professional on it these days. It works fine for those who have it (fully patched, of course) but I would put 2008 in a green field site. (OTOH - I wouldn't recommend people who have 2003 to upgrade yet if there is no pressing reason).

    SBS2008 has a premium edition, but it does not include ISA and cannot handle the 2-NIC situation you describe. It is considerably more expensive than 2003 also and would require more RAM (the more the better - 6-16Gb is good!).

    SBS2008 has the same backup as windows server - it backs up to disk only, but you can set it to back up every 15mins if you want! And it is fully recoverable from the backup. In fact the backup is the same format as a virtual disk, and can be mounted in a virtual machine - just not booted.
    i really think you should consult with an SBSC in your region. If you let me know which area of the UK you are in, I can recommend someone to contact you.
    TIA

    Steven Teiger [SBS-MVP(2003-2009)]
    http://www.wintra.co.il/
    sigpic
    Iím honoured to have been selected for the SMB 150 list for 2013. This is the third time in succession (no logo available for 2011) that I have been honoured with this award.

    We donít stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing.

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    • #3
      Re: New domain - 2003 or 2008?

      PS to the above. Don't rely too much on your DELL rep - he is usually not familiar with SBS to the required level
      TIA

      Steven Teiger [SBS-MVP(2003-2009)]
      http://www.wintra.co.il/
      sigpic
      Iím honoured to have been selected for the SMB 150 list for 2013. This is the third time in succession (no logo available for 2011) that I have been honoured with this award.

      We donít stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: New domain - 2003 or 2008?

        This depends big style on your requirements. IMO Microsoft has dropped the ball big time by removing ISA/TMG from SBS and including it in EBS instead. The fact that people who are upgrading to 2008 domains now have no option but to either stick with ISA and Server 2003 or a third party solution until TMG is released is a major problem for most of our customers.

        SBS 2008 Premium does exist, but AFAIK adds a second Server 2008 license and a SQL Server license, rather than adding ISA Server as in 2003. If, as you state, you must have ISA server or equivalent your options are SBS 2003 Premium or Essential Business Server (Much more expensive I would expect) 2008 which includes Forefront TMG Medium Business Edition.

        I've told Dell many times not to install things at the factory but they usually ignore me. I always do a clean install on a new box anyway, I don't trust them to do it right or not to bundle crap I don't want like Openmanage out the box.
        BSc, MCSA: Server 2008, MCSE, MCSA: Messaging, MCTS
        sigpic
        Cruachan's Blog

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: New domain - 2003 or 2008?

          Hi Steven,

          Thank you for your detailed response and clearing up my questions.

          Considering the company are in a workgroup at the moment and the considerable initial outlay for them, I presented several options (including 2K although went for the 2K3 Premium with External RD1000.

          As for Dell, their "Server consultant" was very helpful to be fair, and very keen to get this order processed!

          Thanks again,

          Simon

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: New domain - 2003 or 2008?

            cruchan - just typing reply as you posted. Thanks for the clarification. The Server is on it's way. format and install it is! I'll try and find the documentation on the RAID 5 before it arrives.

            Simon

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: New domain - 2003 or 2008?

              If it's a DELL, the documentation for the RAID will be on one of the CD's. You can use the Installation Manager to setup your server for you with the correct drivers etc and then feed the SBS disks. If you go with 2003, then you get the option to put things like Users Shared Folders and Exchange on a D: partition you create. Also, unlike cruachan, I find OpenManage a good utility for managing the server, especially for monitoring hardware to tell you if a disk array is degraded or a disk is not attached.
              TIA

              Steven Teiger [SBS-MVP(2003-2009)]
              http://www.wintra.co.il/
              sigpic
              Iím honoured to have been selected for the SMB 150 list for 2013. This is the third time in succession (no logo available for 2011) that I have been honoured with this award.

              We donít stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: New domain - 2003 or 2008?

                I don't actually object to openmanage as a bit of software, I mostly object to Dell tech support who seem only to know the phrase "I can't do anything until you install openmanage" or some variation thereof.

                It's not Dell specific bias, I don't want anyone providing me with any kit with the OS pre-installed so I can install only the components I want and configure the partitions as appropriate. Yes, I am anal.
                BSc, MCSA: Server 2008, MCSE, MCSA: Messaging, MCTS
                sigpic
                Cruachan's Blog

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: New domain - 2003 or 2008?

                  Guy's - thanks for the input - appreciated! I look forward for the new arrival and set-up, i'll keep you posted!

                  Teiger - so the user has some input on the install - it's not just thrown on then?!

                  Simon
                  Last edited by simonsays; 6th April 2009, 22:57.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: New domain - 2003 or 2008?

                    We usually say you have to install SBS 3 times. 1st time just to see what it looks like, 2nd time to try out the options+ the "ToDo List", 3rd time for production. Spend the few hours on the new machine trying it out, before you get to production!
                    TIA

                    Steven Teiger [SBS-MVP(2003-2009)]
                    http://www.wintra.co.il/
                    sigpic
                    Iím honoured to have been selected for the SMB 150 list for 2013. This is the third time in succession (no logo available for 2011) that I have been honoured with this award.

                    We donít stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: New domain - 2003 or 2008?

                      Originally posted by cruachan View Post
                      I don't actually object to openmanage as a bit of software, I mostly object to Dell tech support who seem only to know the phrase "I can't do anything until you install openmanage" or some variation thereof.

                      It's not Dell specific bias, I don't want anyone providing me with any kit with the OS pre-installed so I can install only the components I want and configure the partitions as appropriate. Yes, I am anal.
                      Agree 100% - I always re-install any pre-installed OS. That way I can take responsibility for it as I know what is on the box and where. I just want the HP, DELL,IBM utilities there as they work best with their machines.

                      I think we are pretty much in agreement there - call it anal if you will
                      TIA

                      Steven Teiger [SBS-MVP(2003-2009)]
                      http://www.wintra.co.il/
                      sigpic
                      Iím honoured to have been selected for the SMB 150 list for 2013. This is the third time in succession (no logo available for 2011) that I have been honoured with this award.

                      We donít stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: New domain - 2003 or 2008?

                        Originally posted by teiger View Post
                        We usually say you have to install SBS 3 times. 1st time just to see what it looks like, 2nd time to try out the options+ the "ToDo List", 3rd time for production. Spend the few hours on the new machine trying it out, before you get to production!
                        Makes sense!

                        I opened my Actionpack last night and installed 2K3 Premium in a Virtual machine. Just going through the ISA install at this moment.

                        Thanks again,

                        Simon

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: New domain - 2003 or 2008?

                          Originally posted by simonsays
                          4 SATA Hot Swop - RAID 5 250GB (partition to OS, Data and Exchange?)

                          Is it just me or do others cringe at the thought of putting the operating system on a RAID 5 array?
                          1 1 was a racehorse.
                          2 2 was 1 2.
                          1 1 1 1 race 1 day,
                          2 2 1 1 2

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: New domain - 2003 or 2008?

                            Never tried it Biggles77 but I share your concerns. Raid 1 for OS and Raid 5 for the rest may be the best way to go in this case or even Raid 1 for all depending on the number of HDDS.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: New domain - 2003 or 2008?

                              Or even RAID 10 using larger HDDs, depending on users and data (& RAID controller).

                              Sorry Simon, we are now going into territory.
                              1 1 was a racehorse.
                              2 2 was 1 2.
                              1 1 1 1 race 1 day,
                              2 2 1 1 2

                              Comment

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