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  • Help Backup Ideas or Suggestion

    Hi Guys,

    I need your advice in a Backup Startegy. We have a system that creat the backup by itself and dumping it into a FOLDER. Then I copy these files and put burn them in a DVD. We don;t have any Server Backup, SQL BACKUP and other machine Bakcup.

    What you suggestion ? These Files for the system everyday has to be taken and put them off-site to ensure that they are in a safe place. Shall I continue what I'm doing ? or putting a Tape Device to take the whole Backup and also the Data Backup for the System also to be taken @ 1.00 P.M everyday ?

    I'm in a dialimma now and I need your help?

    What you can suggest? All the suggestions are welcome and highly appreciated.


    Thanks in advance.

    Habibalby
    ================================
    HND: Higher National Diploma in
    Computer Science(IT)


    Passed:
    MCSA+Security 2003, VCP3, VCP4
    Done:VMware DSA
    ================================[/COLOR]

  • #2
    Re: <Help>Backup Ideas or Suggestion

    that depends on a few things.

    1. budget. how much can you spend?
    2. if you take a tape drive, what tape rotation scheme do you want to use?
    (1 x full backup on the weekend and incremental or differential backup every day of the week?)
    3. what's your time window for the backup like?
    4. how much data would the incremental, differential and full backup contain?

    these are just a few main points you should consider.
    who will make the final decision on what backup solution to implement?
    Yesterday we stood at the edge of the abyss. Today we are a step further...

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    • #3
      Re: <Help>Backup Ideas or Suggestion

      HI Chris,

      Firstly, thanks for your reply. However, the Budget isn't that much big issue! the company welling to pay. Secondly, what is the tape rotation scheme ?

      Thirdly, what is the best incremetal or differential backup. in addition I'm taking the Data Backup everyday and burn them on DVD.

      The time will be schduled @ night and also, @ 1.30 PM for the System Data to make sure it's taken off-site and put it in a save place. Backup files they reach till 4.9 GB and everyday they increase in size.

      The Desicion I can take it and I can convince the management to go for the best solution that you guys will suggest the best you have.

      Many thanks for you help.

      Habibalbyu
      ================================
      HND: Higher National Diploma in
      Computer Science(IT)


      Passed:
      MCSA+Security 2003, VCP3, VCP4
      Done:VMware DSA
      ================================[/COLOR]

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: <Help>Backup Ideas or Suggestion

        so, budget isn't much of an issue, huh? nice

        in that case i would suggest a tape drive like this one here:
        http://h18006.www1.hp.com/products/s...320/index.html

        i would run 1 full backup per week (preferably over the weekend) which clears the archive bit. then i would run a differential backup every other night of week.
        this will make it faster to restore data from a backup then an incremantal backup would but will also write more data to the tape and take a bit longer to run the backup then the incremental backup would.
        this is the point where you have to take the amount of data being backed up into consideration. if there is little data at first, you might be better off running a full backup every night. however, keep in mind that data tends to grow. especially if you don't implement quota for the users.

        if you go with the above suggestion, you already need 5 tapes per week because each tape is taken offsite for secure storage. you now need to decide how long you want to keep the data on the tapes before you start overwriting it again. f you want to keep the data for 4 weeks, you already need a total of 20 tapes. after tape 20 has been used for the backup you then start over with tape 1. you might want to label the tapes so there is no confusion about which one needs to be used.
        for example: "week 1 - monday - diff" and "week 1 - friday - full"

        if there is little data to be backed up in the bginning, you might just add the backup to the tape because there is still enough space. this will allow you to keep your backups for even longer.

        keep also in mind that you will need disk space for the backup catalogues. we are using veritas backup exec as backup software and we are ocassionally running low on disk space on the system drive because of the size of the backup catalogues. more tapes or more backups on 1 tape mean more catalogues and, therefore more disk space.
        Yesterday we stood at the edge of the abyss. Today we are a step further...

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        • #5
          Re: <Help>Backup Ideas or Suggestion

          I can't add much to what chris said earlier but i can tell you briefly how we do ours.

          We have six sites each doing two identical backups all onto DAT/LTO tapes. Thats 12 tapes at any one time.

          We backup overnight and no backups are taken during the day.

          We backup about 500Gb of data everyday. (nothing really!)

          We keep one tape on-site and ship one tape off-site to a safe-ish location.

          We're looking into online backup solutions which is a big step up from what we do at the moment. The cost of online backups is rather large!

          5 year contract with Iron Mountain is about 350K

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          • #6
            Re: <Help>Backup Ideas or Suggestion

            HI Guys,

            Thank you very much for you great and useful explaination. Do u recomend going for external HDD with a Varitas Software, the Software will take the Complete Backup of all the System, dumping them into the HDD and then burn them from the HDD to DVD Media ?

            I think it's not good idea isn't ? and More headeach.

            habibalby
            ================================
            HND: Higher National Diploma in
            Computer Science(IT)


            Passed:
            MCSA+Security 2003, VCP3, VCP4
            Done:VMware DSA
            ================================[/COLOR]

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: <Help>Backup Ideas or Suggestion

              I would recommend that you don’t use Cd or DVD as backup media. This reason being is that there have been some cases of ‘rotting’ and this can compromise your data after only 5 or so years.

              It really is worth investing in some LTO drives or the DLT drives from the link above. These can back up across SCSI at up to 106Gb/Hour!

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: <Help>Backup Ideas or Suggestion

                Originally posted by simondrake79
                It really is worth investing in some LTO drives or the DLT drives from the link above. These can back up across SCSI at up to 106Gb/Hour!
                i agree. also, you can back up everything in one go.

                1. a tape can store significantly more data then a dvd can.
                2. if you need more then 1 tape per backup you can connect a tape libary and load all the tapes you need into it. the robot will then automatically load the tape into the drive and remove it when done.

                if your backup gets quites large, as it is at some sites we have, you can connect a second tape drive and have the servers to be backed up split up between the 2 tape drives. they will then run at the same time reducing the time the backup takes allowing it to stay within the time window.
                (when using veritas backup exec you will need to purchase a second license for this kind of setup. otherwise you cannot use the second tape drive.)

                this is the only solution when the data to be backed up becomes so large that 1 tape drive cannot back it all up during the night. you probably know that you should not run backups during the day
                Yesterday we stood at the edge of the abyss. Today we are a step further...

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                • #9
                  Re: <Help>Backup Ideas or Suggestion

                  yes guys,

                  you are extermely right and I agree entirely with you. Now, I have decided that to go to a Tape Drive and having two tapes. One tape I'll keep it to take the Backup for the First Time we install the Tape Drive and the second one will keep it to take the Backup @ night. That's to ensure we have extra one incase if someting happen.

                  Very good thank you for your great help and advice guys.

                  Any more suggestion ?

                  Thanks,

                  Habibalby
                  ================================
                  HND: Higher National Diploma in
                  Computer Science(IT)


                  Passed:
                  MCSA+Security 2003, VCP3, VCP4
                  Done:VMware DSA
                  ================================[/COLOR]

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: <Help>Backup Ideas or Suggestion

                    Which one is better the SCSI or DAT USB Drive ?
                    ================================
                    HND: Higher National Diploma in
                    Computer Science(IT)


                    Passed:
                    MCSA+Security 2003, VCP3, VCP4
                    Done:VMware DSA
                    ================================[/COLOR]

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: <Help>Backup Ideas or Suggestion

                      Originally posted by habibalby
                      Which one is better the SCSI or DAT USB Drive ?
                      Both the devices we have shown you can use SCSI cards to transfer the data onto the device. So the transfer speeds are dependent on your SCSI card.

                      Then there are different types of tape technology you can use;

                      LTO
                      DLT
                      AIT

                      etc...

                      see this link for some comparison speeds:

                      http://www.9to5computer.com/Tape-Drive-Comparison.htm

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                      • #12
                        Re: <Help>Backup Ideas or Suggestion

                        @ Habibalby: you'll also need a couple of cleaning tapes as the tape drive will require and ask for the cleaning tape every now and then.
                        as cleaning tapes wear out over time, you will need to replace it.

                        i find only 2 tapes to be a bit of a poor backup solution but that is entirely up to you and the management of your company and depends on your needs.
                        Yesterday we stood at the edge of the abyss. Today we are a step further...

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                        • #13
                          Re: <Help>Backup Ideas or Suggestion

                          HI Guys,

                          I really appreciated your contribution, however, Chris how many tape do u recommend me to use ?

                          Thanks,

                          Habibalby
                          ================================
                          HND: Higher National Diploma in
                          Computer Science(IT)


                          Passed:
                          MCSA+Security 2003, VCP3, VCP4
                          Done:VMware DSA
                          ================================[/COLOR]

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: <Help>Backup Ideas or Suggestion

                            well, that depends on from how long ago you want to be able to recover data.
                            for example:

                            week 1: daily differential backup (4x) + weekly full backup (1x) = 5 tapes
                            week 2: daily differential backup (4x) + weekly full backup (1x) = 5 tapes
                            week 3: daily differential backup (4x) + weekly full backup (1x) = 5 tapes
                            week 4: daily differential backup (4x) + monthly full backup (1x) = 5 tapes

                            the monthly backup tape would be taken away and kept in a safe offsite storage.

                            this tape rotation scheme enables you can recover any data from any day of the past 4 weeks and, since the monthly tape will not be overwritten until the same month of the next year, you can even recover data as it existed at the end of every month for the past 12 months.

                            you would need a total of 31 tapes for this tape rotation scheme.
                            - 19 tapes for the daily differential and the weekly full backups
                            - 12 tapes for the monthly full backup.

                            if you use a rotation like this you need to make sure you label your tapes properly as to avoid using the wrong tape for any particular backup. you'll also need to ensure the retension time (time the tapes are write protected) is set correctly.

                            with this you'll be pretty well covered in your data backup. of course, there'll be the occasional "optimistic" user who wants to have something restored from 2 years ago but never mind those
                            Yesterday we stood at the edge of the abyss. Today we are a step further...

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                            • #15
                              Re: <Help>Backup Ideas or Suggestion

                              I noticed that the data to be backed up at present was mentioned at 4.9GB. What sort of size is this data looking at growing to? 4.9GB is, at present, a long way from needing a 106GB/hour SCSI device or one that is going to need a couple of hundred GB on each tape. It also seems a bit excessive to have the Grandfather, Father, Son, Son-in-law and the bloke next door tape backup method.

                              If the present data is 5GB, why not just schedule a FULL backup each night. Makes a RESTORE an easy and simple process. If the eventual data size is going to be 100-150GB then backup devices can be purchased to fit that. Have an auto tape loader for that amount of data is not a real good use of resources (but bloody nice to have ).

                              Habibalby, how big do you expect the data to backup will get?
                              1 1 was a racehorse.
                              2 2 was 1 2.
                              1 1 1 1 race 1 day,
                              2 2 1 1 2

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