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  • File server and storage gateway

    Hi all,
    I need your information and suggestion !!!!
    I want to manage distribuited file server to :
    reduce local backup
    manage disaster recovery
    guarantee recovery data
    migrate from Microsoft file server mantaining ACL and NFS permission

    My idea is:
    -give to all branch office (min 300 Gb max 4 tB are the dimension of total shared folder throuht different office) a smart storage in which manage local snapshot to allow a form of locale recovery
    -use a central big applliance to replicate and synch tle peripheral appliances to manage a sort of DR.

    How can reach this goal?
    I was evaluating a storage gateway but it was too expensive...
    And the most important think: I HAVE TO MIGRATE EXISTING SHARED FOLDER from our file server into this storage / appliance so this solution must be integrated and compatible with Microsoft ACL .

    Now I'm thinking to netApp storage .
    But do you know something to do this?
    like Panzura or Flash Array Storage? or other smart storage?

    Obviously not expensive... ...DFS is too obsolete?

    thanks a lot
    Frabit

  • #2
    Re: File server and storage gateway

    DFS is too obsolete?

    Really, a few Windows Servers with a good amount of disk space and previous versions enabled with DFS should get you what you're asking for. You still need to backup your data no matter where it resides.
    Regards,
    Jeremy

    Network Consultant/Engineer
    Baltimore - Washington area and beyond
    www.gma-cpa.com

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: File server and storage gateway

      Thanks Jeremy.
      So...you think I can reach my goal with Microsoft DFS?
      And how can I realize the backup?
      So for every office I have to create a work group between the office and the central site?
      Mmmmm i have to think inter continental site...
      Thanks in advance


      Comment


      • #4
        Re: File server and storage gateway

        Originally posted by Frabit View Post
        And how can I realize the backup?
        Sync all sites to a central DFS server and back that up using your normal backup method.

        Originally posted by Frabit View Post
        So for every office I have to create a work group between the office and the central site?
        Not sure what you mean by workgroup. DFS can function using AD or in standalone mode.

        Originally posted by Frabit View Post
        Mmmmm i have to think inter continental site...
        Regardless of what solution you choose, you need to consider the links between the sites. Some solutions may offer better replication compression than DFS but the current version of DFSR is pretty good. Since we're just talking about file shares then the best thing would be to have it on a Windows server. Going with a NetApp (which can participate in DFSR) seems like overkill just for file shares. If replication speeds are a real concern then looking at a WAN optimization device (Riverbed and Silverpeak are two good ones) is probably the better route since that will address the bandwidth issue versus getting a storage array that won't.

        Now if you need disk performance for some applications, DBs, VM, etc, then going with a storage array makes sense.

        I will say that I'm just giving you my opinion based on the info provided. There may be good reasons to get an array for your org but without doing an assessment I really can't say.
        Regards,
        Jeremy

        Network Consultant/Engineer
        Baltimore - Washington area and beyond
        www.gma-cpa.com

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: File server and storage gateway

          Flash is overkill for just file data. Skip this requirement.

          NetApp can do the job easily. I can't size it for you but I would look into FAS2200 series for the branch offices and FAS3200 series with the central office.
          Also FAS can integrate with DFS, has scheduled syncs and the local snapshots you're looking for. Maybe you've more requirements but it's a starter...

          NetApp (as well as many other storage vendors) are multiprotocol storage systems which can do block based storage as well as file based storage. Secondly storage arrays do have less overhead then Microsoft (e.g. patching, virus sensitivity etc), highly reliable, and usually easily expandable.
          And besides all this, since NetApp is from origin a file based system, it can do de-duplication on both file as block based storage. This in contrast of some other systems.

          If you are interested in other vendors you can have a look at Greenbytes, EMC and Hitachi for example.

          Personally if you can afford it, I would go for a storage system rather then a few Windows servers. This doesn't mean that Windows can't do the job, in contrary. However I do like the flexibility and reliability from the storage vendors I have seen.
          However, everything comes with a cost and with the info posted you might even use a simple linux systems with samba.

          But still, without an assessment I can only give my personal opinion.
          Marcel
          Technical Consultant
          Netherlands
          http://www.phetios.com
          http://blog.nessus.nl

          MCITP(EA, SA), MCSA/E 2003:Security, CCNA, SNAF, DCUCI, CCSA/E/E+ (R60), VCP4/5, NCDA, NCIE - SAN, NCIE - BR, EMCPE
          "No matter how secure, there is always the human factor."

          "Enjoy life today, tomorrow may never come."
          "If you're going through hell, keep going. ~Winston Churchill"

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: File server and storage gateway

            Thanks for your suggestion.

            I'm very confused about pros and cons of this two kinds of solution.
            I have this infrastructure:

            5 locations in my country:


            1 --> 3/4 Tb data and 80 users
            2 --> 4 Tb data and 800 users
            3 --> 4 TB data and 100 users
            4 --> 300 Gb data and 50 users
            5 --> 500 Gb data and 100 users


            The second location is the CORE in which we have the server farm and the HA and business continuity infrastructure.


            We have 100Mb of connection line for 2 of this location with the CORE, and 8 Mb for the other 2...



            With this kind of data and user I'm very confused ...
            NetApp could be very expensive and overkilled for little branch offices (location 4 and 5) ...


            What do you think with these new informations?


            Thanks a lot

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: File server and storage gateway

              Originally posted by Frabit View Post
              5 locations in my country:


              1 --> 3/4 Tb data and 80 users
              2 --> 4 Tb data and 800 users
              3 --> 4 TB data and 100 users
              4 --> 300 Gb data and 50 users
              5 --> 500 Gb data and 100 users

              The second location is the CORE in which we have the server farm and the HA and business continuity infrastructure.


              We have 100Mb of connection line for 2 of this location with the CORE, and 8 Mb for the other 2...
              IMHO for a true HA solution, Windows DFS might not cut the deal. This since it's based on a scheduled replication unless you plan to implement a clustered shared volume (which still requires a shared storage solution) and create fileshares from there.
              However, it might work for you if some loss of data (before sync or due to backlog) is allowed.


              But yet, I came up with some questions anyway

              4 TB for 800 users? Are you sure? Seems quite low.
              • What are the connection speeds per site to site 2?
              • How much data change occur on a daily and weekly base?
              • Is there a need for a "file server" at every office?
              • What is the RTO and RPO?
              • What backup solution are you using or do you have in mind?
              • Do you have other viable options where a shared storage might come in handy, like clustered email, sql or virtualization for example?


              Anyhow, either solution costs quite some money and the cheapest solution is not always the best solution or vise versa. In the end it's all about the business requirements.
              Marcel
              Technical Consultant
              Netherlands
              http://www.phetios.com
              http://blog.nessus.nl

              MCITP(EA, SA), MCSA/E 2003:Security, CCNA, SNAF, DCUCI, CCSA/E/E+ (R60), VCP4/5, NCDA, NCIE - SAN, NCIE - BR, EMCPE
              "No matter how secure, there is always the human factor."

              "Enjoy life today, tomorrow may never come."
              "If you're going through hell, keep going. ~Winston Churchill"

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: File server and storage gateway

                Finally I come back...
                sorry for the late...the day of final decvision is coming

                Originally posted by Dumber View Post
                IMHO for a true HA solution, Windows DFS might not cut the deal. This since it's based on a scheduled replication unless you plan to implement a clustered shared volume (which still requires a shared storage solution) and create fileshares from there.
                I can't reach my goal with shadowing copies between different partition a local backup and the DFS like replication for Disaster Recovery?




                However, it might work for you if some loss of data (before sync or due to backlog) is allowed.
                in theory is not acceptable...for this I have to consider different copies

                But yet, I came up with some questions anyway

                4 TB for 800 users? Are you sure? Seems quite low.
                • What are the connection speeds per site to site 2?
                • How much data change occur on a daily and weekly base?
                • Is there a need for a "file server" at every office?
                • What is the RTO and RPO?
                • What backup solution are you using or do you have in mind?
                • Do you have other viable options where a shared storage might come in handy, like clustered email, sql or virtualization for example
                Yes I confirm these datas . I have users that don't like write a lot
                To answer:


                • the second location I wrote is the core in which we have a local Computer room that is linked with the Server farm in the same site with a connection speed of 10 Gb
                • I'm not be able to answer at this point because depends a lot from the department....IT change documents less frequently than legal offices...
                • where there is a good connection is possible to eliminate the local file server...but I have to be sure of avaibility of data....
                • RPO and RTO I think is acceptable more or less 24 hours (8 working hours )
                • Now We are evaluating IBM Tivoli Storage Manager for all the infrastructure but for the file server, as I little mentioned, I think to use shadowing copies as local back up....
                • unfortunately no....otherwise I could justify netapp....
                  [/QUOTE]



                Anyhow, either solution costs quite some money and the cheapest solution is not always the best solution or vise versa. In the end it's all about the business requirements.
                I agree with you but I manage the money

                every suggestion is ever more precious!!!

                Do you know NAS HP with WinStorageServer2012?

                It permit us to reduce local know how and management...

                Thanks a lot

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: File server and storage gateway

                  Well what if one of the DFS servers fail before replication occur? If a CPU burns out, data will be inaccessible. If the main board burns out, still the data is inaccessible.

                  Shadow copies aint backups. It helps to restore some data but if there's a site failure, you might get problems. With NetApp you can use the NetApp snapshots which is IMHO more powerful. Up to 255 snapshots per volume. A backup is taking the data offsite.
                  For example if you want backup to disk:

                  A and B are production DC's. C is a recovery location in case both production DC's fail.
                  Data from A - C
                  Data from B - C
                  Data from A - B
                  Data from B - A

                  In this case, any failure on any site is covered where C is an emergency location if both A and B production DC's might fail.

                  My earlier questions are valid questions any storage consultant might ask you. A microsoft consultant might ask about the same, yet they'll might try to resolve it with just Microsoft. As you might have seen in my signature, I do both
                  So please, re-review the answers you can't answer. Also the site speeds between offices to site 2 is where I'm looking for, not within site 2. Secondly you might nog have virtualization yet, but when investing, don't forget to look into the future. Same as the data growth. You gonna need to do some forecasting.

                  There's an other way to look into the requirements you have.
                  You can also use a NetApp environment in the head office using FAS3200 series, but you even might want to use the FAS2220 (dual controller!!)

                  The NetApp will be the HA solution, centrally located. The other sites can be used with Windows 2012 with less data or no need for HA. Then find a way to replicate the data to the NetApp. There are some tools which can help you with that. Robocopy the data or some other tools findable on the net for example: http://www.peersoftware.com.
                  Yet, I haven't worked with peer software so you might want to look into it.
                  Snapmirror between multiple NetApp systems is easier though.

                  Oh, keep in mind though that the NetApp can participate in DFS, however only as a leaf. I forgot to mention that earlier.

                  This might be a document of interest (yes I know it's a weird looking google link but somehow I can't get the correct link from Safari): https://www.google.nl/url?sa=t&rct=j...55980276,d.d2k


                  IMHO NetApp is more costly but still it depends on the needs. Personally I would find a good consultant to help you out. Sit around the table and let them help you. From here I can only do so much while I can do much more when I would be onsite.
                  Marcel
                  Technical Consultant
                  Netherlands
                  http://www.phetios.com
                  http://blog.nessus.nl

                  MCITP(EA, SA), MCSA/E 2003:Security, CCNA, SNAF, DCUCI, CCSA/E/E+ (R60), VCP4/5, NCDA, NCIE - SAN, NCIE - BR, EMCPE
                  "No matter how secure, there is always the human factor."

                  "Enjoy life today, tomorrow may never come."
                  "If you're going through hell, keep going. ~Winston Churchill"

                  Comment

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