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  • Slow domain logon times over wireless

    We are a school district and have several different wireless systems in difference buildings but we're starting to use more and more wireless devices. We're seeing really long logon times 5+ min when connected on wireless but no delay at all on wired connections. Is there a fix for this? Like I said we have various wireless systems so its not related to any specific one or type of wireless device.

  • #2
    Re: Slow domain logon times over wireless

    This doesn't sound right at all.

    A wireless networks can't quite match the speed of a modern 1 Gbps wired network, but unless your login procedures involves moving significant amounts of data over the network, the difference isn't usually noticeable.

    When you say it takes five times as long to log in, what does that mean, exactly? How long does it usually take on a wired system?

    Are these wireless networks by any chance separate IP networks? Are you using access points or wireless routers?

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    • #3
      Re: Slow domain logon times over wireless

      I know it shouldn't and it only happens when groups try and login all at once which happens a lot. A class will start 25-30 students will login and they can take anywhere from 5-10 min. Some get temporary profile errors and have to re-login but the second time usually works since by that time the majority have logged in and the bottleneck is over. The errors in the event viewer for those are just slow network etc.

      But if I take a single device and login it logs in in 30-40 seconds. Just a little longer then on the wired connections. Yes the Wireless networks are on seperate IP networks. We are using Access points. We have 26 buildings and over time some have differnt vendors of wireless systems. Trapeze, Cisco, Ruckus so the models of AP or wireless system doesn't appear to be the cause.

      Another thing after all 30 finally log in I can stream video to all at once with no problems its just the domain login that is slow. Is there something in the login that is different from file transfers or streaming video that gets bottle necked by wireless? I've had our network dept use wireshark and it doesn't appear a lot of data is being transferred by the login process so we can't find a way of fixing this.

      We are school and if a class is an hour and they waste 15 min logging on it cuts don on teaching time.

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      • #4
        Re: Slow domain logon times over wireless

        Typically slow logon times are a sympton of bad DNS.

        Are you using roaming profiles?

        ***EDIT***

        Also i'm pretty sure there is something you need to do to the wifi cards to get them to work before logon.

        bootstrap wireless profile seems to pop up in the searches i do.
        Last edited by wullieb1; 20th February 2015, 01:48.

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        • #5
          Re: Slow domain logon times over wireless

          30-40 seconds is what I'd call a slow login. 5+ minutes is just ridiculous.

          You mentioned that some students get logged in with temporary profiles. Are you using roaming profiles? And if so, are you also using folder redirection, or is everything stored in the user profile?

          If the wireless networks are separate IP networks, which DNS settings do you use in these networks? Do you have sIte objects in AD, and are the wireless networks defined as subnet objects tied to the right sites?

          What sort of router is handling the traffic between the wireless network and the network where the domain controllers (and perhaps more importantly, the file servers with the user profiles) are located?

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          • #6
            Re: Slow domain logon times over wireless

            Well for us 30-40 sec would be fine on the newer stations we have its quicker on some of the older Win 7 models we still have 40 sec is fine for now but 5 to 10 min and sometimes more is not effective. Went out to another building yesterday and found out if rooms across the hall (sharing an AP) both try and use wireless devices the problem is worse.

            Yes we are using roaming profiles with folder redirection but also mandatory profiles for students so the profiles are really small. As for what DNS settings perse I'd have to check to get exact IP'S but each site (for now) has its own DC and DNS server in the building and like I mentioned before after the eventual logon they all get good speeds IE streaming video etc. Yes the sites are setup per building and the IP range for the wireless in each site is tied to the local DC and DNS server.

            I don't know the model of the router model is in each building. I know the Main site has a Sonicwall.

            As for Bad DNS can you elaborate? I don't think we have to do anything else to get the wifi cards to work before logon. If I boot up a PC I can ping it before someone logs into it so to me that tells me its onloine.

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            • #7
              Re: Slow domain logon times over wireless

              Sorry forgot one of your ?sYesterday I went out to a class starting and out of 34 people logging on 5 got temporary profiles that after they ;logged off and back in worked fine. In the Event viewer it just said a slow network etc and logged on with temp profile. So on the second attempt they were able to get their profiles after the bulk of everyone else had logged on

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              • #8
                Re: Slow domain logon times over wireless

                If you have a whole class logging on at once, and transferring profiles, is the wireless bandwidth up to it.

                If one person logs on (not others), how is the speed?
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                • #9
                  Re: Slow domain logon times over wireless

                  How can I tell? Our Networking team says from their monitoring while this is happeneing the bandwidth isn't maxed out. And after they all eventually do get in Like I mentioned I can stream videos to all of them at once or start large file transfers at the same time.

                  If one person logs in at a time the login is pretty quick

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                  • #10
                    Re: Slow domain logon times over wireless

                    Do you have more than one class logging on at the same time? Also, what sort of load is the server under where the profiles are stored and is the DC running comfortably during this time. Is the data you stream coming from the same servers? Just wondering if the servers themselves might be low on resources.
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                    • #11
                      Re: Slow domain logon times over wireless

                      Are you running GPOs? I have seen them slow down logons to a 10 minute crawl. Add the GPO to stop GPO processing until after logon (or something similar - not in a position where I can give you the exact location or name for it at this point in time).
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                      2 2 was 1 2.
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                      2 2 1 1 2

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                      • #12
                        Re: Slow domain logon times over wireless

                        Hi, you could give this a try on a test laptop.
                        Under the profile of the wireless network properties > security tab > advanced settings >Enable single sign on for this network > and choose 'Perform immediately before user logon'

                        Edit:
                        Some good answers here too
                        http://serverfault.com/questions/374...-windows-7-2k8
                        Last edited by uk_network; 21st February 2015, 17:23.
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                        • #13
                          Re: Slow domain logon times over wireless

                          Originally posted by jason0923 View Post
                          How can I tell? Our Networking team says from their monitoring while this is happeneing the bandwidth isn't maxed out. And after they all eventually do get in Like I mentioned I can stream videos to all of them at once or start large file transfers at the same time.

                          If one person logs in at a time the login is pretty quick
                          In other words:
                          • One user logs on: Everything works just fine.
                          • Multiple users log on simultaneously: Logon takes forever, some users get logged on with temporary profiles

                          That pretty much rules out DNS settings, routing, firewall filters and Group Policy processing. This looks very much like network congestion, and while it's possible that a router, the server(s) or the LAN at the server end could be the bottleneck, my money's on the WLAN.

                          You say you're using roaming (mandatory) profiles combined with folder redirection. The latter does indeed significantly reduce the size of the profile, but the redirected folders still have to be synchronized at each logon.

                          As this is a school environment, I'm guessing you're using the "Delete cached copies of roaming profiles" GPO setting to prevent multiple local profiles to consume all available disk space on the PCs? In that case, the entire profile has to be downloaded at every logon. While each profile may not be all that big, downloading 20+ profiles at once could very well cause congestion.

                          The Networking team may claim that the bandwidth isn't "maxed out", but I'd take that with a grain of salt until I'd actually seen it myself, because everything you've told us so far points to the contrary. This includes the PCs detecting a "slow link" which, unless you've changed the default setting, means an effective bandwidth of less than 500 kbps. That's a very slow or seriously congested network. Like, say, a WLAN being flooded by frames from a fast LAN backbone.

                          The networking people may have measured bandwidth at the wrong point, or perhaps misinterpreted the results. For instance, effective bandwidth in wireless networks is significantly below the maximum data rate to the technology in question.

                          If you're using 802.11g equipment, you won't see anything even remotely close to the 54 Mbps transfer rate mentioned in the 802.11g specs. A wireless network is a half-duplex shared medium, and with 802.11g you'd be lucky to get 20 Mbps on a particularly good day. 802.11n improves on that somewhat by using multiple channels simultaneously, but we're still talking about around 100-150 Mbps shared between all connected devices.

                          You could try looking at the NIC statistics on a PC before and after logging on, just to get an idea of how much data is actually being transferred. Remember to add the RX and TX data, since WLAN is half-duplex. Then multiply the result by 20 and see if the WLAN should really be expected to handle that amount of traffic in 15-20 seconds.
                          Last edited by Ser Olmy; 21st February 2015, 19:57.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Slow domain logon times over wireless

                            Yep, basically if all the users in a given class finally login and I take another wireless device and login its pretty quick as a one off.

                            Yes we are using the Delete cached copies of roaming profiles GPO but as you mentioned the profile it does download is less then a few Meg. We have several different wireless systems between the buildings the one I was testing at the status on the WLAN card showed a 300 Mbps connection. I'll try looking closer at the NIC statistics on some of the laptops and see what that shows

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                            • #15
                              Re: Slow domain logon times over wireless

                              I cannot fine the settings for

                              Hi, you could give this a try on a test laptop.
                              Under the profile of the wireless network properties > security tab > advanced settings >Enable single sign on for this network > and choose 'Perform immediately before user logon'

                              to Try

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