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Question: some one here using exchange2007 for production enviroment?

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  • Question: some one here using exchange2007 for production enviroment?

    Hi

    after some posts and tests about exchange2007 i am asking myself if i should take exchange2007 for production.


    the thing is i have to run in 1 or 2 weeks in house exchange and lets say i install exchange 2003... then i have to upgrade later... and it also means upgrade license or maybe not but its just to much work i thing... so should i use exchange2007 now?

    i am a little scared about exchange 2007 seems to work but i would like to know if some one here use it in his production network.

    so do i have green light from you here?


    thanks
    Yaniv F
    MCSE 2000 Done
    RHCE Done

  • #2
    Re: Question: some one here using exchange2007 for production environment?

    I am not running it in production - unless you count at home.
    I am also not recommending anyone to run it in production until at least Easter or even later.

    If the deployment works, then you are fine.

    However if you have problems then you are in a hole. In the last 24 hours I have heard of two people who have taken E2007 issues to Microsoft Support who have failed to resolve them. They then come to newsgroups to get assistance and are unable to because the knowledge just isn't there.

    Exchange 2003 is basically a seven year old product. There is an awful lot of assistance available for it in the form of newsgroups, forums and independent consultants. Exchange 2007 is at most 12 months old in its current format and has been available for less than six weeks.

    There are no books, very little documentation. Even the documentation from Microsoft cannot be relied upon. The help documentation is riddled with errors. I have sent at least a dozen items of feedback for the help documentation.
    I suspect that soon I will be recommending that after installing your Exchange server, the first hing you should download is a new version of the help or at least ignore the help file that is supplied with it and rely on the one on Microsoft's web site.

    Then you get issues with third party support. Very little is confirmed to be working with Exchange 2007 (and don't take the sales droid word for it - they will say it is compatible with Exchange 4.0 if it will get them a sale).
    Do you want to be the guinea pig for application support?

    What I am suggesting to clients at the moment who need to purchase Exchange is buy the Exchange 2007 licenses then request an Exchange 2003 media kit. Use downgrade rights for the next six to nine months. Get used to Exchange, get it working how you want. It will be a much easier transition to Exchange 2007 in six or nine months time when the product is more established and many techniques which are taken for granted with Exchange 2003 are known and tested with Exchange 2007.

    Simon.
    --
    Simon Butler
    Exchange MVP

    Blog: http://blog.sembee.co.uk/
    More Exchange Content: http://exchange.sembee.info/
    Exchange Resources List: http://exbpa.com/
    In the UK? Hire me: http://www.sembee.co.uk/

    Sembee is a registered trademark, used here with permission.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Question: some one here using exchange2007 for production enviroment?

      Sembee thanks for taking the time to write...


      ok lets start with that ex2007 is very young...

      you are so right about this point...
      i just think that something will go wrong and no mail service is available at the company and the support for the product is not so good at the moment then i will be in trouble..

      What I am suggesting to clients at the moment who need to purchase Exchange is buy the Exchange 2007 licenses then request an Exchange 2003 media kit. Use downgrade rights for the next six to nine months.
      is the dowgrade rights for extra money? or is it included?

      also i have hear that the ex2007 is very expencive and overkill for my 27 users
      if you compare it to the ex2003 STD version.

      and we still did not talk about backup with some third party tools...
      just to young...


      so i will be going to install ex2003 STD and i need just to check
      with the dowgrade rights thing you say...


      thanks
      Yaniv F
      MCSE 2000 Done
      RHCE Done

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Question: some one here using exchange2007 for production environment?

        Downgrade rights is free. The only thing you have to pay for is a media kit. Here in the UK that costs about UKú20 - which I think is a standard charge for media kits from Microsoft.

        The costs of Exchange 2007 depend on what you already have. To get the best from it you need Outlook 2007. Exchange 2007 CALs do NOT include a license for Outlook 2007, so you will have to license it separately. That can increase the costs.

        For 27 users, I would be looking at SBS. You will not see an SBS with Exchange 2007 before the end of the year.

        Simon.
        --
        Simon Butler
        Exchange MVP

        Blog: http://blog.sembee.co.uk/
        More Exchange Content: http://exchange.sembee.info/
        Exchange Resources List: http://exbpa.com/
        In the UK? Hire me: http://www.sembee.co.uk/

        Sembee is a registered trademark, used here with permission.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Question: some one here using exchange2007 for production enviroment?

          Hi,

          I running some customers with Exchange 2007 without any problem.
          To do this you have to make a short plan:

          1. Hardware requirements (at least 4 GB, 2x Dual Core CPU's etc.).
          2. Software requirements (Backup software for X64, Antivirus for x64 etc.)
          3. Tests - Tests the new product in a lab.
          4. RTFM.
          Best Regards,

          Yuval Sinay

          LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/yuval14, Blog: http://blogs.microsoft.co.il/blogs/yuval14

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Question: some one here using exchange2007 for production enviroment?

            i think that at the moment ill stay with ex2003... too much thinks are not as they should be...

            thanks for your information

            Yaniv F
            MCSE 2000 Done
            RHCE Done

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Question: some one here using exchange2007 for production enviroment?

              Originally posted by yuval14 View Post
              Hi,

              I running some customers with Exchange 2007 without any problem.
              To do this you have to make a short plan:

              1. Hardware requirements (at least 4 GB, 2x Dual Core CPU's etc.).
              2. Software requirements (Backup software for X64, Antivirus for x64 etc.)
              3. Tests - Tests the new product in a lab.
              4. RTFM.
              Ah ???

              I am currently working on deploying Exchange 2007 for a 3.5K seat client and the list you have provided is far from being conclusive to be able to deploy it.

              How about:
              - training of onsite IT stuff
              - re-permissioning to cope with AD/Exchange task separation
              - undocumented issues
              - wrong/incorrect documentation
              - list goes on...

              Even that I have MCS folks ready to jump in if things go wrong, I am far from being comfortable with deploying E2K7 right now.
              It might work nice for ~100-200 seat shop, but when you take the product into environment that can't be handled without automation, new processes and procedures, this turns to be quite painfull experience.
              Guy Teverovsky
              "Smith & Wesson - the original point and click interface"

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Question: some one here using exchange2007 for production environment?

                With all the scripting available in E2007, I can see that in six months or so it will prove to be a fantastic benefit to the larger sites. You can bring a consultant in to write you a script which will ensure that all accounts are setup in the correct way, identically for every account.

                Once the third party market actually catch up, I can see a real growth in the third party management tools that will allow the core Exchange administrators to expose only what the lower level administrators need to do their job.

                There is some real power in E2007, but there just isn't enough there to do it just yet. I am recommending to my clients to wait until at least Easter before considering a deployment - perhaps some small scale testing now, but that is all.

                Let others get their fingers burnt and see what third party utilities become available to make things easier.
                I am already seeing complaints on the news groups and forums about how much has to be done on the command line.

                Simon.
                --
                Simon Butler
                Exchange MVP

                Blog: http://blog.sembee.co.uk/
                More Exchange Content: http://exchange.sembee.info/
                Exchange Resources List: http://exbpa.com/
                In the UK? Hire me: http://www.sembee.co.uk/

                Sembee is a registered trademark, used here with permission.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Question: some one here using exchange2007 for production enviroment?

                  Totally agree with Simon. The amount of knowledge and tools available for E2K7 is not enough right now and being the first to take the path can be quite rough around the edges.
                  Things that were streight forward in E2K3 based on best practices and common knowledge need to be reevaluated when dealing with E2K7. Just take into example CCR scenario and how you deal with backups:
                  - will you be backing up the DBs from active or passive CCR copy ?
                  - can the VSS capable storage deal with CCR ?
                  - how do you adjust the backup processes to deal with the large databases ?
                  - how will E2K7 behave with geographically stretched over high speed links CCR mailbox cluster ?
                  - will 3-node CCR clusters become reality in SP1 ?

                  Those that will deploy E2K7 right now will probably provide a lot of food for those that will be writing the best practices
                  Guy Teverovsky
                  "Smith & Wesson - the original point and click interface"

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Question: some one here using exchange2007 for production enviroment?

                    I'm now in "slow motion" to release to production environment E2k7.

                    Here is my list of + and - , maybe someone share knowledge about their production systems?

                    + Web Mail (aka OWA) - much improved from prev. version, works flawlessly with Win, Mac, and non-IE browsers like Firefox and Safari. Supports many interface languages out right from the box. Customizable with themes. But loses creation of Rules (strange step backward).

                    + E2k7 introduces Edge + ADAM, which is attempt to complete with third-party front-relay systems, such as Sendmail/Mdaemon in terms of fighting spam and viruses, while keep outside world away from inside AD structure.

                    + Looks stable, disaster-friendly (for example, supports many Edge servers and correctly routes mail if one of Edge Fails - you may place Edges on primary and backup Internet channels and configure as primary and secondary MX)



                    - poor GUI as everyone agree - needs much improvements with SP1 or third-party software.

                    - strange decision to make almost all configuration via cmdlets, horror of sendmail-like software config faces average windows admins (joke ) How to see a list of all mailboxes in domain with size and count of mails for each mailbox? Write a script, right? Better to improve GUI or publish a site with tons of ready to use cmdlets...

                    - make "near obsolete" Public Folders, and push Sharepoint services to replace, but where is in MS site article in bold - "How to Integrate Sharepoint 3/2007 with e2k7?"

                    - especially for Edge role - here is a short list of typical checks, needed in nowadays mail systems, but I don't see answers in doc's how to configure this:

                    - reject messages with empty HELO/EHLO
                    - reject messages with IP addresses in HELO/EHLO, for example HELO 221.22.12.11
                    - do reverse lookup by default and reject messages if sender's domain not found

                    above rules in my current mail systems helps me to reject tons of spam...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Question: some one here using exchange2007 for production enviroment?

                      I'm running Exchange 2007 since May 3rd 2007.
                      It all went fine migrating from Exchange 2003.

                      OWA = Fantastic
                      File server access through OWA = Fantastic

                      QuadCore Xeon, 9GB RAM, 15000rpm FAST raid 0+1 with 100 users and VERY SLOW gui = Priceless!

                      I have hade some annoying issues with EX2K7 but I think they will all be solved
                      with SP1.

                      Still, I recommend it and would't want to live without it.

                      But, MIcrosoft, COME ON!! Windows Admins wants GUI TOOLS!!!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Question: some one here using exchange2007 for production environment?

                        Originally posted by Zeb View Post

                        But, Microsoft, COME ON!! Windows Admins wants GUI TOOLS!!!
                        In actual fact the number one request from Exchange admins was for everything to be scriptable. There was no demand for GUI everything. All that GUI does is make it easy for non Technical people to screw up their server.

                        The poor performance of the management console doesn't help. However that isn't an issue with Exchange, that is MMC 3. Load anything else in that console (WSUS 3 for example) and it loads just as slow.

                        Simon.
                        --
                        Simon Butler
                        Exchange MVP

                        Blog: http://blog.sembee.co.uk/
                        More Exchange Content: http://exchange.sembee.info/
                        Exchange Resources List: http://exbpa.com/
                        In the UK? Hire me: http://www.sembee.co.uk/

                        Sembee is a registered trademark, used here with permission.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Question: some one here using exchange2007 for production environment?

                          Originally posted by Sembee View Post
                          There was no demand for GUI everything..
                          It might be true that there was a demand for making everything scriptable,
                          but admins that were satisfied with the gui didn't demand taking away easy tasks from the gui and making it scriptable only.

                          And if the gui screws things up, then it's a bad programmed gui.

                          I think most admins agree with me that Windows OS and applications should primarly have a really good gui AND the possibillity to script everything.

                          Thank u for the clearification about the mmc 3.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Question: some one here using exchange2007 for production enviroment?

                            Yep, yep we also use 2007 in production...

                            31 mailboxes, running fine...

                            But strangly, I`ve had 0 issues, very easy to setup, wit exception of GUI speed which is sooo slow that I`ve learn power shell

                            We have a few Windows mobile based devices which I`ve just upgraded to WM06...

                            Well I must say I`m impressed. Everything is fast stable (so far) HTML mail is displayed correct...

                            With exchange 2003 all this cuties were missing (And with WM05 too).

                            I`m more than satisfied, but it is true that I`m running it on vmware because I didn`t trust it...

                            So if something goes wrong, I simply overwrite it with backup...

                            The vacation will be quiet this year

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