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  • Strange EULA's

    without wanting to hijack this

    http://forums.petri.com/showthread.p...317#post109317

    topic about the EULA off SBS2003

    Doesn't it seems strange to anyone that the MS EULA demands that AD is installed on an SBS2003 server, an good analogie would be if you would buy an Ferrari and youre not allowed to drive slower than 150 mph due to the Ferrari EULA and if you don't drive 150mph then the engine turns off, don't think anyone would accept those terms, yet MS is enforcing these terms on customers and no one seems to care, really strange.

    Why should MS care if an SBS server is run as an workgroup server, as SBS2k3 is just still an 2k3 server with some addon's

  • #2
    Re: Strange EULA's

    Don't think it really matters. I'm sure Steven will correct me but SBS Std. is just the server OS with a bunch of wizards and Exchange (premium adds SQL and ISA) so if you're buying SBS then you need to have AD because that's a requirement for Exchange.
    Regards,
    Jeremy

    Network Consultant/Engineer
    Baltimore - Washington area and beyond
    www.gma-cpa.com

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Strange EULA's

      Originally posted by JeremyW View Post
      Don't think it really matters. I'm sure Steven will correct me but SBS Std. is just the server OS with a bunch of wizards and Exchange (premium adds SQL and ISA) so if you're buying SBS then you need to have AD because that's a requirement for Exchange.
      I know that, but what if i just don't want an AD on the server and i have an SBS2003 license lying around doing nothing, why should it be 'illigal' to just use it as an workgroup server.

      Sure MS wants you to buy an extra win2k3 license just to do that while the SBS license remains unused, seems to me like an agressive vorm of monopoly abuse by MS.

      What if you went out to buy an new car and the EULA of that car states that you must use the Airco of that car at all times, if you switch off the airco then youre car will not start.

      Sure you would go try to buy another brand of car, but what if there was only one manufactur of car's???, you just would have to swallow these kinds of weird demands or have no car at all.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Strange EULA's

        Ah, OK, I see your point.

        What we should do is all learn Linux or Google should develop an OS that they'd sell for $20.
        Regards,
        Jeremy

        Network Consultant/Engineer
        Baltimore - Washington area and beyond
        www.gma-cpa.com

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Strange EULA's

          Originally posted by JeremyW View Post
          Ah, OK, I see your point.

          What we should do is all learn Linux or Google should develop an OS that they'd sell for $20.
          That's one possibilty, the other is that MS should learn to get some respect for the people that pay there bills, the consumer's that would buy MS stuff.

          But's it's not just MS that makes these weird demands in the EULA's all other major players which have an monopoly on some corner off the market make weird demands also.

          Luckily i live in the Netherlands and here an EULA has almost no legal right whatsoever, but i keep being amazed about the weird demands in the eula's

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Strange EULA's

            Don't forget that you are not actually buying the software but a licence to use it. Microsoft, Adobe, Apple own the software your "purchase" a licence for.

            Think of it like renting a house or apartment. You full have access to the property while you are paying the rent and have an agreement (licence) with the owner, but occupation comes with certain restrictions. eg. You can't remove walls or build additional rooms or (in most cases) sublet a part of the building. By signing a rental agreement, you are entering into an EULA with the owner of the building. Very similar to what one does with a software company.
            1 1 was a racehorse.
            2 2 was 1 2.
            1 1 1 1 race 1 day,
            2 2 1 1 2

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            • #7
              Re: Strange EULA's

              Originally posted by biggles77 View Post
              Don't forget that you are not actually buying the software but a licence to use it. Microsoft, Adobe, Apple own the software your "purchase" a licence for.

              Think of it like renting a house or apartment. You full have access to the property while you are paying the rent and have an agreement (licence) with the owner, but occupation comes with certain restrictions. eg. You can't remove walls or build additional rooms or (in most cases) sublet a part of the building. By signing a rental agreement, you are entering into an EULA with the owner of the building. Very similar to what one does with a software company.
              You are right about the 'renting' off the software, but the big differnce here is that if you want to rent an house from me and i have such weird restrictions in the rent contract then you could always decide to leave it and rent a house from someone else, but with these major players like MS you have no choice, it's an take it or ...... nothing.

              It's not like there are 15 different Adobe photoshop manufactures out there, and even if there are 15 then the problem is when you want to have youre artwork printed because the printer almost always demands that you suplly the artwork in photoshop format.

              These company's can make these restrictions because they know there is virtually no competion, therefore i don't really find it immoral to 'break' the EULA when someone rips out AD of SBS2003 because MS only put's in these restrictions to make more money, not out of concern that the SBS server might malfunction.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Strange EULA's

                Originally posted by RonaldM View Post
                i don't really find it immoral to 'break' the EULA when someone rips out AD of SBS2003 because MS only put's in these restrictions to make more money, not out of concern that the SBS server might malfunction.
                What do you find immoral or not is of a very little importance. That's why we have laws and courts and judges. If some guy sells some stuff with an enormous price, only because he is the only that has it, you are not entitled to steal it. Only because he wants to "make more money" ...
                I also don't think there's no other option... There are a lot of versions out there... Read the EULAs, check the small letters and all the meanings of the product you plan to buy the right to use it and decide. Why otherwise don't we all hack XP to allow more than 10 concurrent network connections, and use it instead 2003 Server? And this is only one small example, there are a lot of them out there...
                I am still stuck with BackupExec 9.1, only because Veritas was bought by Symantec and they started asking for money for agents that were free (Linux) and doubled (at least) the price for Windows agents. Am I entitled to decide I want to use those agents without paying for them? Only because the same software is now called Symantec and not Veritas? Hell, no...

                Sorin Solomon


                In order to succeed, your desire for success should be greater than your fear of failure.
                -

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                • #9
                  Re: Strange EULA's

                  Originally posted by sorinso View Post
                  What do you find immoral or not is of a very little importance. That's why we have laws and courts and judges. If some guy sells some stuff with an enormous price, only because he is the only that has it, you are not entitled to steal it. Only because he wants to "make more money" ...
                  I also don't think there's no other option... There are a lot of versions out there... Read the EULAs, check the small letters and all the meanings of the product you plan to buy the right to use it and decide. Why otherwise don't we all hack XP to allow more than 10 concurrent network connections, and use it instead 2003 Server? And this is only one small example, there are a lot of them out there...
                  I am still stuck with BackupExec 9.1, only because Veritas was bought by Symantec and they started asking for money for agents that were free (Linux) and doubled (at least) the price for Windows agents. Am I entitled to decide I want to use those agents without paying for them? Only because the same software is now called Symantec and not Veritas? Hell, no...
                  Ho, i never said that it was okay to steal the software, but i did say that ripping out AD out of an SBS server because you want to use it as an workgroupserver is not immoral, youre just not using an feature off the product, nobody is stealing anything.

                  If i rent an house which has 10 bedrooms and i only use 5 rooms i ain't gonna kicked out because i don't use 5 rooms, i pay for 10 rooms and i don't wanna use them it's my good right to do so, but not with SBS2003, you pay for it and you MUST use it, that's absurd.

                  I also don't think there's no other option... There are a lot of versions out there... Read the EULAs
                  In most western country's the law state's that an contract that's related to the product must be availeble for the consumer before he buy's it, did you ever seen an EULA printed on the box off an software package in a store, i certainly have not, any contract (or EULA) that can only be read AFTER the purchase is consired invalid in most european country's.
                  And the argument that the EULA's can be read on the internet is not valid because if i don't have an computer to get on the internet and i buy one with vista i can only read the EULA after the sale.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Strange EULA's

                    I think it's more complicated than renting a 10 bed house and using only 5 rooms. Say I build a complex piece of machinery, that has interdependencies to run properly, and I sell a licence to you to use it properly in the way I intended it to be used when I built it. It's a complex but powerful laser controlled widget turner. If you use it to take a bath in, and not for it's proper designed purpose, you can't just say "Oh I'm dumbing it down, that's OK, it has a sump that I can fill with water and is capable of having a bath in, so why not?"

                    Simple answer to why not - you're using it against it's intended purpose and the licence vendor, me, would get pretty cheesed off if you then went around telling everyone that it wasn't a very good bath. You could give my product a bad name when you didn't use it for it's intended purpose.

                    I do agree that the EULA should be available prior to purchase. Perhaps these things are published somewhere...
                    Best wishes,
                    PaulH.
                    MCP:Server 2003; MCITP:Server 2008; MCTS: SBS2008

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Strange EULA's

                      Originally posted by PaulH View Post
                      I think it's more complicated than renting a 10 bed house and using only 5 rooms. Say I build a complex piece of machinery, that has interdependencies to run properly, and I sell a licence to you to use it properly in the way I intended it to be used when I built it. It's a complex but powerful laser controlled widget turner. If you use it to take a bath in, and not for it's proper designed purpose, you can't just say "Oh I'm dumbing it down, that's OK, it has a sump that I can fill with water and is capable of having a bath in, so why not?"

                      Simple answer to why not - you're using it against it's intended purpose and the licence vendor, me, would get pretty cheesed off if you then went around telling everyone that it wasn't a very good bath. You could give my product a bad name when you didn't use it for it's intended purpose.

                      I do agree that the EULA should be available prior to purchase. Perhaps these things are published somewhere...

                      You have an good point, but i sold you a very expensive machine and you use it as an bath i personally couldn't care less (as long as i get my money), i would just state in the EULA that if you do such things youre not getting any support from me (that's the normal way).

                      And if i buy an machine from you and i want to 'dumb' it down and am not allowed to do so youre also gonna take the flak for the fact that i am not allowed to do what i want with it.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Strange EULA's

                        The EULAs are on websites nowadays. I think people in the past have fought the EULAs and won because they're in the box. Pretty sure MS had to refund the cost of the software to them.
                        ** Remember to give credit where credit is due and leave reputation points where appropriate **

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Strange EULA's

                          Originally posted by Wired View Post
                          The EULAs are on websites nowadays. I think people in the past have fought the EULAs and won because they're in the box. Pretty sure MS had to refund the cost of the software to them.
                          EULA's on website's are not valid where i live, actually it has to be in print because the EULA's that are display in installer's and where you have to check the I Agree box are not legally binding at all.


                          And even if on the web would be oke, how is somebody going to read them when they don't own an computer and want to buy one and it comes with Vista.

                          And then there's the mather of things in EULA that are just simpel against the law for example the limited warrenty, in the netherlands the minimum warrenty is 2 year's (by law) no EULA is allowed to change that and the same goes for some technical limitations in an EULA, we don't have an DMCA and i am allowed to reverse engineer products as long as i don't use that knowledge to build an product that is very similar to the original product.

                          Actually in the Netherlands you don't rent a license, you actually own that copy and with that copy you are allowed to do as you see fit (not including selling pirated copy's) but if i want to rip functions out off an software packages i am by law entitled to do so (actually the EULA states that different law may be in force and that the stated limitations is not for the country's that have those laws).

                          For example if i want to sell servers with an 'dumbed' down version of SBS2003 on it then MS can not do anything about just as long i purchase the software legally (EULA's or Contract's you have to agree on AFTER the sale are not allowed by law in the netherlands )

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Strange EULA's

                            Have you checked that with the BSA, stichting BREIN, and lawyers?
                            Because I really have some doubt about it

                            However, I'm curious about it because it's also my country

                            And what about the EU?
                            Don't they have any laws about it what even The Netherlands should follow?
                            Last edited by Dumber; 18th June 2008, 21:52.
                            Marcel
                            Technical Consultant
                            Netherlands
                            http://www.phetios.com
                            http://blog.nessus.nl

                            MCITP(EA, SA), MCSA/E 2003:Security, CCNA, SNAF, DCUCI, CCSA/E/E+ (R60), VCP4/5, NCDA, NCIE - SAN, NCIE - BR, EMCPE
                            "No matter how secure, there is always the human factor."

                            "Enjoy life today, tomorrow may never come."
                            "If you're going through hell, keep going. ~Winston Churchill"

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                            • #15
                              Re: Strange EULA's

                              Hmm this is interesting...
                              http://arnout.engelen.eu/files/docs/law/rnc.html

                              @English speakers/readers, I'm NOT going to translate the complete document, however try any translate website and probably it will make a bit more sense
                              Marcel
                              Technical Consultant
                              Netherlands
                              http://www.phetios.com
                              http://blog.nessus.nl

                              MCITP(EA, SA), MCSA/E 2003:Security, CCNA, SNAF, DCUCI, CCSA/E/E+ (R60), VCP4/5, NCDA, NCIE - SAN, NCIE - BR, EMCPE
                              "No matter how secure, there is always the human factor."

                              "Enjoy life today, tomorrow may never come."
                              "If you're going through hell, keep going. ~Winston Churchill"

                              Comment

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