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  • How does Biggles feel?

    How does Biggles77 feel about this? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asi...ic/7165987.stm

    Australia plans tough web rules to protect children against porno on the web - what's the general feeling amongst IT folk in Oz?
    Last edited by PaulH; 31st December 2007, 22:26.
    Best wishes,
    PaulH.
    MCP:Server 2003; MCITP:Server 2008; MCTS: SBS2008

  • #2
    Re: How does Biggles feel?

    Well, Biggles loves Sheep so he won't really miss it
    Marcel
    Technical Consultant
    Netherlands
    http://www.phetios.com
    http://blog.nessus.nl

    MCITP(EA, SA), MCSA/E 2003:Security, CCNA, SNAF, DCUCI, CCSA/E/E+ (R60), VCP4/5, NCDA, NCIE - SAN, NCIE - BR, EMCPE
    "No matter how secure, there is always the human factor."

    "Enjoy life today, tomorrow may never come."
    "If you're going through hell, keep going. ~Winston Churchill"

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: How does Biggles feel?

      The previous Australian Govt spent $85 million on a proxy filter to protect the young children from the evils of the Internet. Unfortunately it was hacked in 30 minutes by a 16 year old school student. Well, that work like a wee gem.

      I am all for protecting children from this filth and that is why I try and download as much of it as I can so as to keep it safe from their little eyes.

      Seriously, it is the responsibility of the parent to keep track of what their child(ren) are doing online and not the Govt. If this measure is brought in then I shall be applying for the exemption on principal. I guess I will then be on a Govt watch list. Schools at present are connected to quite elaborate filters that block a fair percentage of inappropriate sites & software. Problem is they also block a number of tech sites so I can Google a problem, get a fix but the link is blocked. But not all sites get filtered because new sites appear every second and the filters aren't clever enough to block the shit.

      Their plan is going to be a big waste of taxpayers money because as soon as (if) it is implimented, some little smartie is going to find a way around it. (Just look at the money poured into preventing copying DVDs etc) Stephen Conroy sounds like the last Comms Minister and knows nothing about IT, the Internet or how it all works.

      Last year there was the chance to create a top level domain .sex but the pollies got on their high moral horse and shut it down. Now wouldn't it have been easier to block off the .sex domains than try and filter everything. Our Net speeds are slow enough now, what is filtering going to do to them? All this for porn and violence. I wonder if they have ever seen the spam that keeps coming to the Inbox. No word on fixing that festering pit of porn infested messages.

      What will they filter next, Windows Live, Yahoo Chat and the multitude of other dangerous sites? They would have more success by forcing everyone back to 28.8 dialup plans. That way it would take longer to download the devils material.

      George Orwell must be laughing in his grave as they try and turn the clock back 24 years.
      1 1 was a racehorse.
      2 2 was 1 2.
      1 1 1 1 race 1 day,
      2 2 1 1 2

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: How does Biggles feel?

        I have to say I agree with Biggles' sentiment.

        IMHO, it is NOT the job of Governments to decide what we should / should not see on the web. There is too much scope for the "thought police" to get into the act and remove material that IS appropriate but disagrees with their politically correct little minds. For example, I am a member of a number of forums dealing with military history and conflict simulations (since "wargaming" is a dirty word...) How long will it be before those sites are not acceptable to the PC brigade? Or how long before only the ruling party viewpoint is allowed?

        At the end of the day, the job of Governments should be to
        Educate citizens in responsible net use
        Prosecute those breaking the law (e.g. distributing / profiting from child pornography)
        Help those with mental problems that make them view such sites
        Ensure equitable access to information
        Tom Jones
        MCT, MCSE (2000:Security & 2003), MCSA:Security & Messaging, MCDBA, MCDST, MCITP(EA, EMA, SA, EDA, ES, CS), MCTS, MCP, Sec+
        PhD, MSc, FIAP, MIITT
        IT Trainer / Consultant
        Ossian Ltd
        Scotland

        ** Remember to give credit where credit is due and leave reputation points where appropriate **

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: How does Biggles feel?

          I am joining togther some dots here, and it would be interesting to see if I am just building a house of paranoid cards:

          1. China already has a very um... vigorous series of blocks and censorship on the web

          2. Australia has offered to be a diplomatic bridge between China and the West on matters of pollution and so on

          3. Australia now suggests censorship of the web...

          So, is Australia buddying up to China and are darker motives at work here? Is this the thin end of the wedge?

          It probably goes without saying that most of us are against censorship of the web, but we do accept it readily enough in our bookshops and newspapers, TV and cinemas. Some Christians have even called for banning the Harry Potter books, which makes my jaw drop in utter amazement. Anyway, Biggles77 has touched on ideas about governments trying to take on big IT projects. Here in the UK there have recently been at least three major incidents of government departments "losing" personal data (ripe for ID theft) by copying them onto CD and stuff like that. I cannot reconcile how governments think they can ever be trusted with any aspect of IT management. All of us who live in a commercial/business world would all be sacked of we allowed such things to happen to our customers' databases. Sad to say, I feel you Australians will probably pay for a vast web cencorship scheme which, as Biggles 77 points out, will be hacked in 3 minutes. You'll probably be able to download a click-and-forget-bypass applet from Tucows.
          Best wishes,
          PaulH.
          MCP:Server 2003; MCITP:Server 2008; MCTS: SBS2008

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: How does Biggles feel?

            In my opinion why should the web be filtered.

            The responsibility of surfing the web is down to the parents of the kids that are surfing.

            I have 2 kids aged 10 and 16 and they are protected at home from those sites but as adults my wife and i aren't. We had to protect them because no-one else will.

            I can understand the government putting a scheme like this into council buildings, schools, colleges etc, etc, hell we put it into primary schools in the UK years ago, and protecting them there but the government MUST allow parents to protect there kids by telling the parents the steps to take to protect there kids on the net.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: How does Biggles feel?

              Just learnt this morning about a 3 month test for the same thing for Tasmania (an island, large island, that is part of Australia though often forgotten) and the test was deemed a failure. Tasmania was chosen, I believe, because it was an island and had limited points of entry for Internet connections (mainland OZ) and they thought it would be easier for filtering purposes. It still failed.

              It looks like the initial proposal is becoming shakey with more groups coming out against it. As was pointed out during a TV interview that there are sufficient filtering methods now available for parents it implement and the Govts role should be providing education to parents on how to apply these methods (just like Wullie said above). Might be cheaper for the Govt to purchase a site license for Net Nappy, Cyber Surfer or similar software and provide it for a nominal fee. Or even ensure that Modem/Routers that are supplied by the ISP can provide URL, Keyword and other filtering.
              1 1 was a racehorse.
              2 2 was 1 2.
              1 1 1 1 race 1 day,
              2 2 1 1 2

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: How does Biggles feel?

                While I personally consider pornography innapropriate, we must be careful how much control we allow the government to have over our personal lives, whether we're liberal or conservative and whether we agree with the initiative or not. The old adage "give them an inch and they'll take a mile" seems apropo here. Today they want to combat pornography, tomorrow they'll want to combat alcoholism and cancer by banning beer and cigarettes. Next they'll want to combat spam by taking away your ability to run an email server from home, etc., etc.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: How does Biggles feel?

                  Joe: Interesting points there. You are touching on some recent comments made in the news here in the UK (don't know where you are from), which says that the National Health Service is going to provide treatment for people who smoke or are obese only depending on their willingness to change their lifestyle.

                  This is yet another example of more and more interference - we all pay for the NHS so we should all be able to use its services. Regulation such as this is simply appalling. Taken to the ultimate extent, every individual would be responsible for his/her very own individual unique set of circumstances. Thus "society" as a whole would never help the weak or disadvantaged.

                  Ossian talked about helping the disadvantaged to view web sites and I agree with his bullets about govt's responsibilities. I really think that the govt's role should be legistlating to force website designers to make their sites accessible. That's the kind of social behaviour we need to see - the strong making provision for the weak and helping them out.

                  This may seem a digression from the original topic, but it all goes along the same vein.

                  I'm really interested in what Biggles77 had to say about Tasmania. Just goes to show govt's can't do IT projects. Makes me a little happier that it's not just the UK govt who regularly balls things up in this area.

                  Also, wullieb1 says it's parent's responsibility to filter websites for their children, YEA ABSOLUTELY! just as it is to make sure our children don't bring cigarettes, guns, solvents or even mud into the house. It's not the govt's responsibility to filter the web, so why would the Aussie govt suggest it? To endear them to the Chinese perhaps?
                  Best wishes,
                  PaulH.
                  MCP:Server 2003; MCITP:Server 2008; MCTS: SBS2008

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: How does Biggles feel?

                    Originally posted by joeqwerty View Post
                    While I personally consider pornography innapropriate, we must be careful how much control we allow the government to have over our personal lives, whether we're liberal or conservative and whether we agree with the initiative or not. The old adage "give them an inch and they'll take a mile" seems apropo here. Today they want to combat pornography, tomorrow they'll want to combat alcoholism and cancer by banning beer and cigarettes. Next they'll want to combat spam by taking away your ability to run an email server from home, etc., etc.
                    Unfortunately Pornography is a huge part of the internet that we can't hide away from.

                    I can remember searching for something completely innocent years ago and finding porn on the first page of a search.

                    Nowadays though the search engines are really sophisticated and are doing the job that they are meant to do and thiat is bringing relevant searches for a certain topic.

                    I doesn't take much to implement a strategy to protect kids from this type of thing. For not alot of money we can protect our kids from this while allowing, if you so wish, adults to view pornography. This is and adults choice remember.

                    In my humble opinion though something should be built into the OS as standard by ALL major players in the OS market. I think Vista MAY have something, could have been a download from MSN though.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: How does Biggles feel?

                      I, a father of 3 young girls, would like to suggest two ideal situations:
                      • Free speech- we live in a democracy which grants us this right. We may protest in a public place, speak our mind to others and go places we want to go without restrictions. But if the government filters our internet, we become like China, Iraq, Iran, etc. Welcome to Big Brother....
                      • Education- our government needs to stop wasting money on consultants who tell us we should be banned from certain internet sites, dumb ideas like hackable web filters and instead put money into the education of our children wrt what's right and what's wrong on the net. We all have a decision making mind so let's use it to make our own decisions on what we should and should not see on the internet. In the case of minors, let's educate the parents to be able to steer their children in the right direction


                      How many parents out there can't even turn on a PC? If they are not educated then how will their children be educated. Teach the parents who can then teach the children because it is the parents who spend the most time with the children.
                      Last edited by JDMils; 28th February 2008, 14:18.
                      |
                      +-- JDMils
                      |
                      +-- Regional Systems Engineer, DotNet programmer & Jack of all trades
                      |

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: How does Biggles feel?

                        Maybe because I'm living in a country where soft-drugs is legal, prostitution is legal etc...
                        For those who doesn't know, I'm living about 30 minutes from Amsterdam.
                        Well maybe it's just my lifestyle..


                        I really don't like the idea if our government would filter any internet access.

                        Ok my ideas.
                        Why should I protect my children (depending of their age) against stuff like porn?
                        I think it's better to teach them what the risks are and explain them how thinks work then denying them the access. If I should deny it, it becomes more and more interesting for them. I rather see them surfing at home where I'm there to explain and teach them then I loose them out of my sight.

                        Just like Chatting. Why should I deny them access to chat rooms and MSN if I'm can teach them what the risks are.

                        I think you make you're children much more world wise. I think it's better that children can participate in the real world if you just don't deny them inappropriate sites.

                        In the beginning when they are just to young I would use something like Krowser: http://www.krowser.nl/english.php
                        Although it's a Dutch product some explanations are translated to English so you can find you're way


                        But hell what do I know. I still don't have children yet
                        Marcel
                        Technical Consultant
                        Netherlands
                        http://www.phetios.com
                        http://blog.nessus.nl

                        MCITP(EA, SA), MCSA/E 2003:Security, CCNA, SNAF, DCUCI, CCSA/E/E+ (R60), VCP4/5, NCDA, NCIE - SAN, NCIE - BR, EMCPE
                        "No matter how secure, there is always the human factor."

                        "Enjoy life today, tomorrow may never come."
                        "If you're going through hell, keep going. ~Winston Churchill"

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: How does Biggles feel?

                          Originally posted by Dumber View Post
                          Why should I protect my children (depending of their age) against stuff like porn?
                          I think it's better to teach them what the risks are and explain them how thinks work then denying them the access. If I should deny it, it becomes more and more interesting for them. I rather see them surfing at home where I'm there to explain and teach them then I loose them out of my sight.
                          This rang a distinct bell with me - we have two boys. When one was about 11 years old, he went to Mum and said "What's all this I hear about porn on the web then?". So in her infinite wisdom, my wife sat him down in front of a PC and together they looked through stuff on the web by typing in "sexy naked babe" to google. She showed him some stuff, they browsed around a bit, and had a good chat about it all in a very open and forward thinking way.

                          When my wife told me about this when I got in from work, I was amazed, impressed and glad to be married to such a wonderful mother. I cannot think of a better way to deal with the thorny issue of "kids" and "porn" in the same conversation.
                          Best wishes,
                          PaulH.
                          MCP:Server 2003; MCITP:Server 2008; MCTS: SBS2008

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