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  • Biting the bullet

    Well, I finally took the plunge and installed Win8RC on a spare laptop (had been doing some experimenting on a VM but had limited success).

    I still hate the "User Interface Formerly Known As Metro" -- and note how most things drop you back to the "UI Formerly Known as the Desktop" -- but I have found that I can run MCT course virtual machines under Win8 HyperV -- a big plus as up till now I have had to dual boot my main machine between Server 2008 (for HyperV) and Win7 for most other things.

    Things bugging me to date:
    1) How to close down apps (apparently you don't, except through Task Manager)
    2) How awful the Mail App is, even compared with OWA

    Positive things:
    (apart from HyperV as mentioned above)
    1) Speed of shutdown/startup seems a lot better than Win7
    2) pretty good device support

    Am I converted....
    ...not yet, but watch this space
    Tom Jones
    MCT, MCSE (2000:Security & 2003), MCSA:Security & Messaging, MCDBA, MCDST, MCITP(EA, EMA, SA, EDA, ES, CS), MCTS, MCP, Sec+
    PhD, MSc, FIAP, MIITT
    IT Trainer / Consultant
    Ossian Ltd
    Scotland

    ** Remember to give credit where credit is due and leave reputation points where appropriate **

  • #2
    Re: Biting the bullet

    Hi, thanks for your first looks review. It's always good to see anothers thoughts.
    I have tried it too on my laptop and its definitely something i would like to spend more time exploring.
    I didn't want to associate my windows live account and log in just in case a crazy ex gf started to contact me. So I logged in using a local account.

    Pros-
    I did like the new task /resource manager
    File transfer shows throughput in a graph.
    The top of windows explorer resembles the ribbon in office.
    Startup/shutdown times are good.

    Cons-
    No start menu (had to use 3rd party software to get it back)
    Had to navigate round using windows shortcuts.
    Couldn't easily find how to even map a drive with the GUI.
    3rd party vpn software didn't work so had to revert back to win7
    Had to go through a few menus to find the shutdown button.

    I think in conclusion this has some way to go before we can deploy it to our all so clever end users.
    Please remember to award reputation points if you have received good advice.
    I do tend to think 'outside the box' so others may not always share the same views.

    MCITP -W7,
    MCSA+Messaging, CCENT, ICND2 slowly getting around to.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Biting the bullet

      OK, two days in and I'm starting getting frustrated!

      On installation (Saturday) Win8 installed its own Broadcom WiFi drivers and picked up my main WiFi network without problems. Yesterday (Sunday) I was using it in a train and it picked up my 3G MiFi dongle on WiFi. Hibernated Win8 between sessions

      This morning the WiFi would see networks but would fail to connect to them, even though I put in a valid WiFi key (which it couldnt seem to remember). Tried removing the device in Device Manager and rebooting (so autodetect) but no luck! Eventually I looked up the model of device (Broadcom 4313 if anyone is interested) using the ID string and installing the specific HP Windows 7 driver, at which point it connected without issues. WTF!

      Then tried activating Win 8 and it failed as it was using a temporary product key. No obvious place to put in my Technet key, but eventually I found this link: http://www.expta.com/2012/08/error-0...-does-not.html and was told to run slmgr -ipk with my proper key in an administrative cmd prompt.

      Normally (in Win7) I would do start, search for cmd and right click then "run as administrator". oops -- no start button... no global search... WTF(2)! A quick later showed me not one, but two solutions: http://techdows.com/2012/01/windows-...eviliages.html involving either searching through apps or via the C drive in "explorer". Both completely non-intuitive (until you see them, at which point they become marginally more obvious)

      I'm going to stick with this, but so far my main impressions have been highly negative

      Oh, if anyone is interested, "the Beast" (formerly known as etc.) is running on an HP Probook 6550b (i3, 8Gb RAM, 500 GB HDD)
      Last edited by Ossian; 3rd September 2012, 13:49.
      Tom Jones
      MCT, MCSE (2000:Security & 2003), MCSA:Security & Messaging, MCDBA, MCDST, MCITP(EA, EMA, SA, EDA, ES, CS), MCTS, MCP, Sec+
      PhD, MSc, FIAP, MIITT
      IT Trainer / Consultant
      Ossian Ltd
      Scotland

      ** Remember to give credit where credit is due and leave reputation points where appropriate **

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Biting the bullet

        As much as I like some of the new features (desktop Hyper-V being a major one), there needs (IMO) to be a big red button to toggle between classic Windows (for normal PCs) and Notro/Metro/Stupid Fish interfaces for touch screens.

        This all apps running all the time really gets on my nerves too. Windows Phone 7 would be a really good phone OS if they hadn't decided to copy every design decision that Apple got slated for 4 years ago.
        BSc, MCSA: Server 2008, MCSE, MCSA: Messaging, MCTS
        sigpic
        Cruachan's Blog

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Biting the bullet

          I'm running Windows 8 Enterprise Edition in VMware Player and I have to say that I don't quite get it. I understand Microsoft's push for the smartphone and tablet space but I don't get the "One Operating System to Rule them All" gambit. I mean, Apple doesn't put IOS on their desktop computers (although that might be the direction they're going in). I find Windows 8 as a desktop OS to be confusing, frustrating and not intuitive... at all.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Biting the bullet

            I think Apples OS is running on all of their devices just the "desktop" is different. It gives them a huge advantage when updating plus their R&D can be focused (of cause one bug can affect all devices but at least the fix should be quicker).
            I can understand MS wanting the same idea and so far, for me at least, jumping back to the desktop in 8 is pretty much the same as 7 just need to use different methods to get to the same location.
            I can't see them changing it to be fair, I'm kinda getting used to it now (albeit it's on my second desktop so I'm not using it as a primary OS yet )
            cheers
            Andy

            Please read this before you post:


            Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Biting the bullet

              I'm now ready to try a full days work on "the Beast". My Logitech presenter is picked up fine, as is the second display.

              Office 2010 is on (I'm too scared to add Office 2013 at the moment) and my MCT PowerPoints and Virtual Machines are ready to go. (Hey, I just noticed IE10 does spell checking automatically -- cool!

              Skype went on last night, but the microphone is not getting picked up properly -- it may need the "official" HP audio driver, but that's for another time.

              Also my task bar is gaining buttons by the score -- since there is no start menu.

              I am really pleased with boot and hibernation speeds (Server 2008 could not hibernate with HyperV installed) but I'm staying pretty far away from "The UI formerly..."
              Tom Jones
              MCT, MCSE (2000:Security & 2003), MCSA:Security & Messaging, MCDBA, MCDST, MCITP(EA, EMA, SA, EDA, ES, CS), MCTS, MCP, Sec+
              PhD, MSc, FIAP, MIITT
              IT Trainer / Consultant
              Ossian Ltd
              Scotland

              ** Remember to give credit where credit is due and leave reputation points where appropriate **

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Biting the bullet

                I'm trying to get it installed on my Macbook at the moment via bootcamp. Not having much luck seeing as i've removed the internal superdrive to add a 2nd HDD.

                I wil persist and achieve what is desired

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Biting the bullet

                  It works great with VMware Fusion on a Mac
                  Marcel
                  Technical Consultant
                  Netherlands
                  http://www.phetios.com
                  http://blog.nessus.nl

                  MCITP(EA, SA), MCSA/E 2003:Security, CCNA, SNAF, DCUCI, CCSA/E/E+ (R60), VCP4/5, NCDA, NCIE - SAN, NCIE - BR, EMCPE
                  "No matter how secure, there is always the human factor."

                  "Enjoy life today, tomorrow may never come."
                  "If you're going through hell, keep going. ~Winston Churchill"

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Biting the bullet

                    This all fits with the patten of MS OS releases, The first one is decent, the next is utterly useless (Windows 2000 (good) Windows ME (BAD) Windows XP (Good) Windows Vista (BAD) Windows 7 (Good) Windows 8 (Bloody horrible)).

                    Personally I am planning on skipping 8 on anything thats not a tablet.

                    Wofen
                    Good to be back....

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Biting the bullet

                      What is it that people find so bad though?
                      Most of the stuff is still the same as 7 when you get to it.
                      I agree the forced "shortcuts" page etc is awkward to be fair my 7 desktop is blank aside from (let me count) 20 buttons on the task bar. If I get all of them on the main screen of 8 then 99% of my work is there.
                      At least that's the theory anyway!
                      cheers
                      Andy

                      Please read this before you post:


                      Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Biting the bullet

                        Andy,
                        I think the main "bad" issue people are finding -- I certainly am -- is the lack of a start menu and how you have to flip back to the App screen to run anything. Part of it is unfamiliarity but part is the way it seems to take 3 or 4 times as long (in terms of actions) to do a task.


                        Once I'm in the desktop, I have absolutely no problems and now I'm pinning more and more shortcuts to the task bar, there is less flipping back.

                        The other thing I miss is the unified search from the start button -- Win+C and search isn't the same, as you appear to have to search each area (apps, settings, files) before you get something, unlike Win7 where one search covers all areas.

                        I have now installed Office 2013 preview and (again first impressions) absolutely HATE the flat icons, capital letters and general blandness of the UI. I have some specific comments about PowerPoint but will save them for another occasion.
                        Tom Jones
                        MCT, MCSE (2000:Security & 2003), MCSA:Security & Messaging, MCDBA, MCDST, MCITP(EA, EMA, SA, EDA, ES, CS), MCTS, MCP, Sec+
                        PhD, MSc, FIAP, MIITT
                        IT Trainer / Consultant
                        Ossian Ltd
                        Scotland

                        ** Remember to give credit where credit is due and leave reputation points where appropriate **

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Biting the bullet

                          Fair enough mate. I think it is something to get used to but nothing insurmountable.

                          Agree on the office 2013 stuff.
                          I haven't used the search yet to be honest so will give that a go.
                          cheers
                          Andy

                          Please read this before you post:


                          Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Biting the bullet

                            OK, big "light bulb" moment when I found out (thank you, ) that you could hit the Win key and start typing to do a global search. OK -- it takes 3 Escapes to get from the searched list back to the desktop...

                            <RANT>
                            PowerPoint 2013 offers a (much hyped) presenter mode -- I know, all previous versions of PPT have the same, but in the past it WORKED!

                            Previously presenter mode ran full screen in the secondary monitor, with a picture of the current slide, a notes pane, and a scrollable view of all sides in the primary.
                            Now it is all black (probably useful in a darkened lecture room, but not in a classroom, with the current slide, a notes area and a preview of the next full slide only.

                            Anyone who has taught MCT courses will know about the demos with hidden slides giving more steps. PPT2013 does not have a mechanism to move to a hidden slide, just to the next visible one (without switching to the "see all slides" view using right click, select view, click on slide).

                            Also the taskbar is hidden in the presenters screen -- there is a show taskbar button which reveals it until you do anything in PPT. Again, I want to flip between PPT slide show and a virtual machine for demos and am finding it fiddly (click Show Taskbar at TOP of screen, go down to bottom, locate icon for VM, click on it). Also if I have something else in the foreground on the second screen and click on the PPT screen at all (scroll through notes), PPT goes to the foreground over the VM so I have to repeat the taskbar operation. FFS!
                            </RANT>
                            Tom Jones
                            MCT, MCSE (2000:Security & 2003), MCSA:Security & Messaging, MCDBA, MCDST, MCITP(EA, EMA, SA, EDA, ES, CS), MCTS, MCP, Sec+
                            PhD, MSc, FIAP, MIITT
                            IT Trainer / Consultant
                            Ossian Ltd
                            Scotland

                            ** Remember to give credit where credit is due and leave reputation points where appropriate **

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Biting the bullet

                              Well, I'm a week into using Win8 exclusively -- only took "The Beast" for this week's training and left "The Brick" (large, high spec laptop with Server 2008R2) at home.

                              I've removed Office 2013 -- I just couldn't stand the blocky, 16 colour, UI -- took me straight back to Win3 days!

                              Win8 is growing on me -- I still have problems searching -- I was slightly overoptimistic when I said I could search through apps, files AND settings with one WinKey -- you still need to flip from one to another. I'm learning more and more WinKey shortcuts that I never needed before, though.

                              Another annoyance is the way some file types are associated automatically with TIFKAM apps. For example PDFs will open with the reader app -- fine until you want to refer to a PDF while writing something in Word. You would think it would not be beyond the wit of man (or Microsoft) to give you the option to "desktopize" an app and flip from full screen to windowed mode (possibly with a WinKey combination ), but apparently this is not the case. So, on goes Adobe Reader and now I have to decide if I want to change the default file association or just right click and open with every time I want a PDF.

                              On the positive side, though, I'm, still very impressed with sleeping or hibernating with running HyperV VMs -- that was something I sorely missed in 2008. Now all they need to do is add the HyperV equivalent of XP mode (USB device passthrough, programs on start menu -- -- and more user friendliness than HV).

                              Also I probably need an AV -- I believe Windows Defender includes some AV capability but I feel naked without one -- has anyone got any good recommendations -- my normal McAfee doesn't seem to like Win8 yet.

                              I am astounded by the Bing Map app -- I have not entered any location information but after connecting to WiFi networks (hotel, workplace etc) it shows my location accurate to within about 20 metres (correct wing of a large building, for example). Does anyone know how it does it, and is Google involved somewhere ?

                              My next step will be to look at Win8 certifications and take one, to get the official picture of what it can do. I'm not a Win8 fanboi yet, but am starting heading down that route.
                              Tom Jones
                              MCT, MCSE (2000:Security & 2003), MCSA:Security & Messaging, MCDBA, MCDST, MCITP(EA, EMA, SA, EDA, ES, CS), MCTS, MCP, Sec+
                              PhD, MSc, FIAP, MIITT
                              IT Trainer / Consultant
                              Ossian Ltd
                              Scotland

                              ** Remember to give credit where credit is due and leave reputation points where appropriate **

                              Comment

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